Should ams receive payouts?

[tampora]

It's not a troll. It's a valid complaint. Here's a similar poll.

Do you think convicted felons should ever be able to own property?
Choice 1: No, they should not be able to own property.
Choice 2: No, they should not be able to own property or marry.
Choice 3: No, they should not be able to own property, or marry, or vote.

That's not very different than this one:

Should Am's receive payouts?
Choice 1: No, they should only get trophies
Choice 2: No, they should only get trophies and players packs
Choice 3: No, they should only get trophies, players packs, and coupons

 

[TheShizz]

Anyways, to add to the thread discussion:
I think a trophy only 'prize' would be interesting. This might encourage more players to play in the open format if they are looking to cash out and create more competition at that level. Cheaper entry for the ams and a more 'even' playing field (assuming more skilled locals enter the open format) could result in more fun. Maybe then offer optional player packs or something? Honestly, I am not active in the tournament scene so what do I know.

 

[bnbanbury]

tampora- I'm sorry you don't like the way i worded my thread. I wrote payout because everyone, even the pdga guidelines, use that terminology and it was clear to the people who left the first 10 pages of replies. I also used the general term "payout" because it isn't necessarily coupons, different TDs have different methods of paying out ams.

 

[tampora]

I wrote payout because everyone, even the pdga guidelines, use that terminology..

Thank you for the calm reply.

Could you please post a link where can I read more about this? My short search only turned up the Pro-Tour excel spreadsheet and some discussion board posts.

I'm curious if the PDGA specifies "cash payouts" instead of just "payouts" for pros. Could you imagine the riots that would ensue if the TD decided to opt for the non-cash methods of "paying out" for the pros?

 

[bnbanbury]

The first chart on the tour standards page for tournament directors (found here: http://www.pdga.com/tour/standards) was where i saw the terminology used and why i applied it to this.

 

[mashnut]

It's also the standard terminology used at every tournament I've been to or seen advertised.

 

[tampora]

In the Tour Standards linked above, this is the closest thing to defining the word payout. And, it is just an inference.

"All ties for first place MUST be determined by a sudden death playoff and the winner MUST be awarded first place money and/or prizes. Player's may NOT elect to leave a first place tie to stand and split the payout."

I'm shocked that it never says that Pro's payout must be in cash form. If the tournament flier said "100% payouts in each division!" and you ended up winning 1st in pro, wouldn't you be a bit peeved to learn your 100% payout was in prizes? ....Or, shudder, vouchers to the local Aerobie store?

 

[mashnut]

In the Tour Standards linked above, this is the closest thing to defining the word payout. And, it is just an inference.

"All ties for first place MUST be determined by a sudden death playoff and the winner MUST be awarded first place money and/or prizes. Player's may NOT elect to leave a first place tie to stand and split the payout."

I'm shocked that it never says that Pro's payout must be in cash form. If the tournament flier said "100% payouts in each division!" and you ended up winning 1st in pro, wouldn't you be a bit peeved to learn your 100% payout was in prizes? ....Or, shudder, vouchers to the local Aerobie store?

Seems like an odd thing to worry so much about, since I've never seen a complaint about that at any PDGA event ever.

 

[tampora]

Nor have I. But it shows there is a double standard with regards to the word payout. If it's an Am division, people here say it definitely shouldn't include cash, but if it's a pro payout, then it DEFINITELY includes cash.

 

[mashnut]

Here's what the PDGA says about player classification, pretty clear:

A player relinquishes Amateur status by registering as a Professional member in the PDGA, or by competing in a Professional division at a PDGA Tour event and accepting cash based on place of finish. A player may request reclassification from Professional to Amateur status by petitioning the PDGA Tour Manager. Reclassification within Amateur divisions (for example, from Intermediate to Advanced or vice versa), is based on player ratings.

 

[tampora]

That says you become a pro if you register as such, or, if you accept cash as a prize. It doesn't say that cash IS the prize when pros are concerned. It says cash CAN BE a prize.

Regardless, the OP never specified we're discussing only the PDGA-sanctioned tournaments. I've been in many unsanctioned tournaments where divisions were called "Pros" and "Ams".

 

[jenb]

I voted that ams should receive cash payout. Oh, wait.

 

[mashnut]

That says you become a pro if you register as such, or, if you accept cash as a prize. It doesn't say that cash IS the prize when pros are concerned. It says cash CAN BE a prize.

Regardless, the OP never specified we're discussing only the PDGA-sanctioned tournaments. I've been in many unsanctioned tournaments where divisions were called "Pros" and "Ams".

The discussion is pretty clearly about PDGA sanctioned events, they're the only ones who have any kind of standards about what it means to be am or pro. In an unsanctioned event it's pretty irrelevant what you call the divisions (unless you want people to know what you're talking about, then you just follow PDGA guidelines anyway).

 

[scarpfish]

"All ties for first place MUST be determined by a sudden death playoff and the winner MUST be awarded first place money and/or prizes. Player's may NOT elect to leave a first place tie to stand and split the payout."

Seems like an odd thing to worry so much about, since I've never seen a complaint about that at any PDGA event ever.

There's also nothing stopping players from making an off the record agreement to split the difference, even if it doesn't appear that way in the results.

 

[krupicka]

That practice of splitting on the side has really irked a TD of one of the biggest events.

 

[AndyJB]

I am firmly of the opinion that every am should get a decent players pack. Disc, mini and either a towel or a shirt, minimum. That's not too hard to do if you make the right connects. They best way to do that is to make it trophy only. And I mean REAL trophy only. 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Not top five or top ten.

Tourneys make take a short hit, but it will benefit the sport in the long run. And Ams will come back as they always do.

 

[ejvogie]

That practice of splitting on the side has really irked a TD of one of the biggest events.

Why should he care what people do with their payout AFTER it's been paid out? It's now theirs, they can do with it what they please.

 

[krupicka]

His beef was that it killed all of the tension that should have been there in the playoff. It makes a big difference when there are thousands of dollars on the line for a single shot.

 

[Dave242]

There's also nothing stopping players from making an off the record agreement to split the difference, even if it doesn't appear that way in the results.

The main difference is that if they split 50/50, the winner becomes the loser......at least if they winning enough money to have to pay taxes on it. The winner would have to pay taxes on the reported amount, which would be more than what the 2nd place would have to pay on.

 

[krupicka]

Here are the comments on splitting that I was referring to:
http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1191359