Sidearm to!

[treethacker]

Got a question about sidearm. Since the only thing I can do with the backhand shot is grip lock I decided in my futile effort to throw a drive more than 220' that I would try sidearm. Problem is I see all of these people throwing it and it takes off 300' plus. I can only throw mine as far as my arm can throw it. So do you have to have really really strong arms to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it more than 200 or more feet? How in the world does it rip it out of your hand?Like I said my disc only go as far as I can throw it which is maybe around 200 feet or 210.I tried throwing really hard and just ended up with a sore elbow and a sore arm in general and no distance. Finally after several attempts I threw my disc in my bag tossed them in the car and said "to hell with it"
One thing about disc golf it has brought out more anger and frustration in me then I ever knew I had! Cuss words I never thought about using before flow easily during a round of this "wonderful" game.
While I am on it,I have been playing for about 2 1/2 years and still cannot drive more than 220 maybe 230 if I am lucky. It has gotten to the point now where if I see a basket that is 300' or more from the tee I just tell myself "there is no way your gonna make that". My question is how do I get out of that mind set? Anyone else ever have or is having this problem? How did you or how are you dealing with it?
I really like this game but I suck when it comes to drives! I have since I started two plus years ago. All you people who are upset cause your drive is only 300 ft,let me know if you would like to switch with me cause I would give anything to have a 300' drive. It is just not there!

 

[EclipticOne]

you dont really have to have big guns. i dont have big arms and can throw 400' all it takes is control over your body. Using the x-step and body twisting you can put all your body into it. Last note, you get a lot of power out of your wrist snap.... just my musings....

 

[jace]

I will assume you may be rushing the shots a little. Slow down. I was in the exact same boat last year until I slowed everything down and worked on both my grip, x-step and twist. Keep at it! I'm just now getting the hang of it and starting to really have fun watching the discs fly!

 

[Lewis]

Find a local expert who can teach you in person. Or short of that, post a video of yourself online and ask for help from the interwebs. People do it here, and they do it at disc golf review too I think. But the best help most definitely comes in person. Second to that is watching others, carefully noticing their form: balance, what the various body parts do, and when, etc., then trying to imitate them.

 

[treethacker]

So you mean even with a sidearm I still have to do the X step? Lordy,I had enough trouble with that trying to throw backhand! Ok,maybe I should of ask this at the beginning,but is the sidearm the same as the forehand? I need to use the X step for a forehand drive?really?

 

[jivedude]

Forehand/Sidearm Fundamentals

 

[Tripod2]

Snappy answer

Someone else already said it, so I'll say it again: You do not need big guns to sidearm effectively. It's all in the snap of your wrist. You will be rather disappointed if you try to force the throw. This is difficult to explain in words, but here's how it was successfully explained to me.

(In advance, please forgive the corniness of the analogy...) Pretend you're a cowboy in the wild, wild west. Draw your pistol quickly from the holster and shoot. Mimic the movement. Now, do that in reverse. That is the flicking motion you should make when sidearming. Try it. Play around with it - that motion might not be the most comfortable for you, but it's something similar.

Once you master the flicking motion down, the next tip is to try to keep your throw low.

And for Pete's sake, don't try to muscle your way thru it. That will only make you a better cusser.

 

[treethacker]

Sheesh! No wonder my forehand sucks so much. Couldn't of done it more wrong if I had tried! I understand what I need to do but looks like this could take sometime to get it down.

 

[3monsterboys]

yeah i'm having a bit of a hard time getting my drives out there too. i notice (like everyone says) when i slow down take a breath i toss them better. what i like to do is pick an area i would like to get my disc in rather then an exact spot. it seems the more accurate i try to be with my drive the more out of control i get(at times). just remember if you want to get a nice long dive your whole body has to work together from your toes to your hand. for my forehand i just take one step or no step depends on the distance i want. if i tried anything else i would probably toss it straight up into the trees.

 

[Chainchaser]

SLOW DOWN!!!After hurting my elbow so bad that I quit throwing for well over a month and thought of just quiting completely I have recently got out and just slowed down. After falling to ground holding elbow I realized that I was doing it wrong. I have stopped throwing for the fence and have decided on just concentrating on form, release and follow through. I am no longer worrying about distance as I was before. So far I have not had the pain return and I am finding I am gettting better distance slowing down than i was putting everything into it. The accuracy is not there but I had a few throws that had good snap which was something i was missing before i hurt my elbow. I guess it took some extreme pain to find out that i need to slow down and that I feel will improve my game immensely.

 

[Woodpecker]

Like Lewis said above, video tape yourself.

In any physical activity, there is "image" and "self image". In other words, the way a person pictures themselves in their mind doing an activity (self image) is rarely close to what actually happens during the activity in the real world (image).

Back in the mid 80's when personal video cameras first became popular, a friend of mine got one and taped me playing pool/billiards. For the previous twenty plus years, I thought I had fairly standard form while playing (self image). When he showed the tape, I was shocked.

My stroke looked like an unfolding lawn chair, LOL. It was terrible and I never had a clue.

My son and I have had a few video sessions out on a practice field. It has helped immensely. For example, I thought I moved my feet fairly well on my run up. Wrong! After analyzing the video, I saw I actually moved like a dancing hippo, very flat footed. So now, when I step onto the teebox, I bounce on the balls of my feet before I start my run up. It keeps me on the balls of my feet and increases my foot speed.

You don't have to have big pipes for arms to throw 300'+. I throw 300-350' regularly on my drives and every once in a while, I'll get one out to 400" and I have toothpicks for arms. It's way more about form and techique than strength.

Work on one thing at a time. It basically takes three weeks of daily practice for a change in techinque to become a habit.

Woodpecker

 

[buzzinb]

Lots of solid advice here. The fundamentals article/link is top rate. I can't really add much else except to encourage people not to give up on the sidearm. Mark Eliis says it best, "The margin of error is smaller when throwing forehand." I can't explain why this is the case, I can only attest that it is true. It is more dificult for a lot of people to master the SA/FH than the BH. That being said, it is worth putting in the time to learn. Frustration is a very normal part of the learning curve. I started off by throwing only overstable stuff like Banshees, Predators, and Venoms. This was a mistake. These discs didn't crash and burn like less stable discs because they were masking my poor form. I was really trying to muscle my thows and was pretty much releasing everything anhyzer and with too little spin although I didn't realize it. After doing a bunch of searches on this site and DGR, I came to realize that I had to make some fundamental changes in my form. First off, I changed my grip from having the pads of my 2 throwing fingers touching the bottom of the flight plate to having the middle finger pressed up vertically against the inner wall of the rim with the index lighly resting behind it. In other words, the hand should be pretty much perpendicular to the flight plate. Second, I knew that I had to get more wrist snap into my throws. I found that the best way to really isolate and develop the wrist motion (I'm sure that there are a number of clever comments to be inserted here!)was to do field practice with only mids and putters. This was the toughest part for me. Talk about wanting to bring a stack of discs to the trap/skeet field. At one point early on, I was looping a belt around my right(throwing) elbow and holding the strap ends behind my back with my left hand just to take my arm out of the equation. Distance sucked! But I kept at it untill I trained my R. elbow not to flail around. Enventually some of the mids stopped turning over. And then some of the putters started to remain in flight. Every time I went out and practiced, things worked a little better. Within weeks I was able get some mids out over 200-225'. By and by I started moving up the speed and stability chart untill I could throw Banshees and Preds again. Somthing funny happened, these discs were now "behaving" like they were designed to. Nice straight drives with reasonable late fade! I started to see decent improvements in both distance and accuracy. The absolute best thing about learning to slow the arm motion down while emphasizing the wrist snap is being able to thow less stable discs without turning them over. My go to (open) distance disc is now a beat in 170 Star Wraith. I am currently able to routinely get in the 350-375 range with a tight S-curve. Not big gun status by any means but a lot better than before. For the last couple of weeks I've been hyzer flipping a beat up pro Destroyer with surprising results as well.

AS for the X-step, I really find it to be much easier when throwing SA. Your off shoulder is already aligned with the direction that you want to throw. You simply take a step with your plant foot in that direction, bring your push-off foot directly behind it and then one last step with your plant foot. The plant foot should be pointing either at or very close to the target line on the last step. Try and get a good push-off with the trailing foot. The push off initiates the chain of events: push-off, hips rotate, torso rotates, shoulders rotate, elbow leads, forearm whips, wrist snaps and disc sails into next zip code. Yep, its that simple .

For those who still prefer an alternative to the Xstep, check out the Acerunners sidearm video on youtube. That dude uses a type of hop step approch that seems to work pretty well.

Didn't mean for this to become a novel.

Keep at it guys...good things come to the those who are dedicated.

 

[swellerdiscgolf]

You don't have to have big pipes for arms to throw 300'+. I throw 300-350' regularly on my drives and every once in a while, I'll get one out to 400" and I have toothpicks for arms. It's way more about form and techique than strength.

Work on one thing at a time. It basically takes three weeks of daily practice for a change in techinque to become a habit.

Woodpecker

400" WOW I thought my drives were short.

 

[Huff]

Stop trying to throw the disc and instead think about how to fly the disc.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

Got a question about sidearm. Since the only thing I can do with the backhand shot is grip lock I decided in my futile effort to throw a drive more than 220' that I would try sidearm. Problem is I see all of these people throwing it and it takes off 300' plus. I can only throw mine as far as my arm can throw it. So do you have to have really really strong arms to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it more than 200 or more feet? How in the world does it rip it out of your hand?Like I said my disc only go as far as I can throw it which is maybe around 200 feet or 210.I tried throwing really hard and just ended up with a sore elbow and a sore arm in general and no distance. Finally after several attempts I threw my disc in my bag tossed them in the car and said "to hell with it"
One thing about disc golf it has brought out more anger and frustration in me then I ever knew I had! Cuss words I never thought about using before flow easily during a round of this "wonderful" game.
While I am on it,I have been playing for about 2 1/2 years and still cannot drive more than 220 maybe 230 if I am lucky. It has gotten to the point now where if I see a basket that is 300' or more from the tee I just tell myself "there is no way your gonna make that". My question is how do I get out of that mind set? Anyone else ever have or is having this problem? How did you or how are you dealing with it?
I really like this game but I suck when it comes to drives! I have since I started two plus years ago. All you people who are upset cause your drive is only 300 ft,let me know if you would like to switch with me cause I would give anything to have a 300' drive. It is just not there!

Most players go thru what you are going thru. The field practice you are doing is a great way to break the first distance plateau. Find videos that teach you how to throw and what steps to take. Dan Beato has a great one, just youtube (Dan Beato Driving) and it should pop up. There is also several from more "known" players such as Climo and SHultz. Soon as you break into the 300's youll be excited but also it wont be long before you start trying to stretch for 350.

 

[treethacker]

I may have to spring for a video camera and tape myself throwing and send it this way. I went out today to the local DG course to practice my forehand and came up with more questions than answers.
First when I tried to snap my wrist it would stop my arm movement to where I was "short arming " the throw. How can you snap your wrist to release the disc without stop the movement of your arm? When you snap your wrist doesn't that mean quick backward movement by your wrist which means you arm cannot continue forward? The flight of the disc after I snap and released it was to go about 40 ft and wormburn about 10ft more. Less than desirable results to put it mildly.In fact after my 40ft flight and wormburn I felt like looking at a camera and saying "that was a great,great throw"(some will get that).
But seriously,this driving thing is extremely frustrating,so much so that I had a thought go through my mind that I never had in the two years I have been playing....just go play something else and forget this silly disc golf. But the nagging feeling that I can't throw more than a couple of hundred feet won't go away. I think I will take a few days off and not play. My knees hurt,my ankles hurt,etc. When you have to take some aspirin just before you go to bed because your legs hurt so much that it keeps you awake,then maybe its time to take some days off!
One other thing I just thought of,I have heard some people say they started throwing forehand because the X step was hurting their knees and yet I find the X step rear its ugly head in mentioning the forearm. Whats with that?
As always thanks for any and all advice.

 

[EclipticOne]

i dont x-step for my forearm.. i just kinda hop. you will also definitely need to rest for a while. when i play when im tired i REALLY stink the course up something terrible..

 

[LeftyToss]

Watch those Dan Beato videos. I also don't get much distance and I figured it was cause i'm skinny and not that strong. I watched his video and went a very wide open course and did exactly what he was saying and it helped a good amount. I still have my bad throws but when it comes together the results are pleasing. Also, try going to a course that has long, but tight throws. I find this makes my mind think about being in control and not going crazy and usually my throws come off a lot nicer.

 

[ShaZaun]

I've been playing about the same amount of time and it seems we're about the same distance wise so here is what i've done to help out the cussing end of it......develop a good upshot, that has saved par for me more times than I can count and sometimes they actually go in which is very nice...... a good putt is worth it's weight in gold...... if you have a shorter course available play it, one of my favorite courses in the area is a shorter course on the first nine with some nice elevation changes.... and finally play with people you can beat ............

 

[buzzinb]

"First when I tried to snap my wrist it would stop my arm movement to where I was "short arming " the throw. How can you snap your wrist to release the disc without stop the movement of your arm? When you snap your wrist doesn't that mean quick backward movement by your wrist which means you arm cannot continue forward?"

The backward motion of the wrist should happen by itself due to the acceleration in the forward motion of the forearm. The key is to keep your wrist loose enough to allow this to happen. It's as if the weight of the disc provides the necessary extra resistance to naturally allow your wrist to bend slightly back or lag as your forearm accelerates forward. This doesn't have to be an exagerrated motion either. The only part where I consciously try to involve my wrist is when it springs forward. Even then, it's not a horse job--controlled and fluid. Sometimes I will warm up by grabing a stack of 4-5 discs and slowly go through the throwing motion to recapture the feel of how the tendon bounce is supposed to occur. It is an awkward feeling at first.