Since I've played Idlewild, I'm looking at courses differently.

[RussMB]

Has anybody gone through this? Since I've played Idlewild, I'm looking at courses a lot differently. I'm considering revisiting some of my previous reviews. I've already revisited one of them, and bumped the rating up. I think Idlewild was a fantastic course, and it was worthy of 5 disc ratings. Absolutely a great course. One thing that I've learned, is that just because it's 5 discs, doesn't make it immune to Cons. Such as park attendees, pathways, etc... When we finished Idlewild, the entire first tee was covered with Cheerleader practice. We are talking about 50 to 100 people, all on the first tee. The tee was in the middle of the crowd. Football practice was going on near the 1001ft hole, with people milling around the fairways. Yet, this course has risen above that, and maintained 5 discs. Inspite of that, I don't disagree with that rating.

So having said that, I'm going back to look at the courses I've played such as West Lake, Steady Ed Headrick (IDGC) and Castle Hayne. (I haven't reviewed Richmond Hill yet, I was still in my review infancy) I think these are all great courses, top notch. What they have in common is, they all have little quirks. West Lake suffers from Park Goers, much like Idlewild. Steady Ed... Actually, I'm not sure why people aren't that fond of Steady Ed. What's not to like? I loved it! Castle Hayne is to flat, Richmond Hill is to tight, I'm just listing what I've read is the common complaints. Yet, these are highly regarded courses, and I agree that they are worthy of being highly regarded.

I'm not saying that Playing a top 5 course should be a prerequisite for writing reviews, but boy did that help me see things differently. I guess what I felt like asking is this: Have you played a top 5 or 10 course, and did it cause you to look at the courses you have played differently?

 

[BrotherDave]

Renny really made me reconsider my grading scale, stupid course.

 

[notapro]

I played that course before any of my reviews.

From my Idlewild review:

"- For as limited as my courses played list is, I have no qualms rating this course the max number of discs. I am glad I got to play this one before reviewing any other courses, Idlewild puts things in perspective."

So yes, I agree big time.

 

[RussMB]

Charlotte is high on my list of places to play! I need to get up there, just no direct route from Myrtle Beach!

 

[RussMB]

I played that course before any of my reviews.

From my Idlewild review:

"- For as limited as my courses played list is, I have no qualms rating this course the max number of discs. I am glad I got to play this one before reviewing any other courses, Idlewild puts things in perspective."

So yes, I agree big time.

It really does!

Brother Dave, I'm actually thinking about bumping my rating of Castle Hayne to 5. I may need to play there again, before I give a definitive answer to that. Your thoughts?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I reviewed many of my courses prior to playing Flip, and already had an idea of what did and didn't constitute a good course in (IMO). By the time I played Flip, it was easy to see what made it a 5 and where previous courses I'd played came close or failed miserably in comparison. Didin't really feel a need to go back and change anything afterwards.

The only other course I've given a 5 to was the Toboggan, and even though that was one of my earliest reviews, I'd still give it a 5 after all the courses I've played and reviewed. It has it's flaws but the disc play is incredible and for what it's intended to do (i.e. tourney and chanmpionship play) it's spot on - challenging course that requires big distance and good accuracy to score low.

 

[Cgkdisc]

just because it's 5 discs, doesn't make it immune to Cons. Such as park attendees, pathways, etc... When we finished Idlewild, the entire first tee was covered with Cheerleader practice.

That's a con?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

That's a con?

Maybe they were ugly cheerleaders?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Of course, the joke around here is, "Why do they use astroturf on Iowa football fields? To keep the cheerleaders from grazing...

 

[RussMB]

Maybe they were ugly cheerleaders?

LOL I would say they were middle school cheerleaders, they looked like kids!

 

[Cgkdisc]

(Must be something about Friday afternoon posting)

 

[RussMB]

Of course, the joke around here is, "Why do they use astroturf on Iowa football fields? To keep the cheerleaders from grazing...

Being an Iowan, I'm also familiar with the slogan If she ain't 280, she ain't no lady! This is why my wife is from South Carolina!

 

[El Oso Peligroso]

Has anybody gone through this? Since I've played Idlewild, I'm looking at courses a lot differently. I'm considering revisiting some of my previous reviews. I've already revisited one of them, and bumped the rating up. I think Idlewild was a fantastic course, and it was worthy of 5 disc ratings. Absolutely a great course. One thing that I've learned, is that just because it's 5 discs, doesn't make it immune to Cons. Such as park attendees, pathways, etc... When we finished Idlewild, the entire first tee was covered with Cheerleader practice. We are talking about 50 to 100 people, all on the first tee. The tee was in the middle of the crowd. Football practice was going on near the 1001ft hole, with people milling around the fairways. Yet, this course has risen above that, and maintained 5 discs. Inspite of that, I don't disagree with that rating.

So having said that, I'm going back to look at the courses I've played such as West Lake, Steady Ed Headrick (IDGC) and Castle Hayne. (I haven't reviewed Richmond Hill yet, I was still in my review infancy) I think these are all great courses, top notch. What they have in common is, they all have little quirks. West Lake suffers from Park Goers, much like Idlewild. Steady Ed... Actually, I'm not sure why people aren't that fond of Steady Ed. What's not to like? I loved it! Castle Hayne is to flat, Richmond Hill is to tight, I'm just listing what I've read is the common complaints. Yet, these are highly regarded courses, and I agree that they are worthy of being highly regarded.

I'm not saying that Playing a top 5 course should be a prerequisite for writing reviews, but boy did that help me see things differently. I guess what I felt like asking is this: Have you played a top 5 or 10 course, and did it cause you to look at the courses you have played differently?

Idlewild is definitely a game changer as to how I view courses, but yes it does have a few cons. I think if the pros are pro enough, which in Idlewild's case they are, a course can still have a few cons and be a five. Really there's no course I've ever played that was "perfect". There's always something you can nit pick about, even if the designers have no control over it at all. How many cons can a course have and still get 5 stars? I don't think there's an exact number to that, but it's more about the strength of the pros than the cons, assuming the cons are THAT big a deal.

As far as Richmond Hill, I think that course is overrated. It might be because I've played it hundreds of times (it's 5 minutes away) but it can't even touch Idlewild. Sad, the old course was a lot better but there's just not enough shot variety at Richmond for it to be five stars. There's just too many straight drives (15 holes, depending slightly on pin position, and almost always a 5-10' gap/alley). Sad, because the old course had much more variety (and many more par 4s and 5s). Sorry I know that's only tangentially related to your post but I needed to vent

 

[El Oso Peligroso]

Charlotte is high on my list of places to play! I need to get up there, just no direct route from Myrtle Beach!

and on this note Renny is much better than Richmond Hill, even if Richmond is ranked .06 stars higher

 

[Porkchop]

Of course, the joke around here is, "Why do they use astroturf on Iowa football fields? To keep the cheerleaders from grazing...

How does a Minnesota Gopher count to 10? ..... 0-1, 0-2, 0-3, 0-4, .....

How do you keep a Minnesota Gopher out of your yard? ...... Put up goalposts

 

[Cgkdisc]

I was going to post the typical Iowa responses to Minnesota for "fair and balanced" reporting but figured there would be at least one literate Iowan on here to do so... (says The Ohio State fan)

 

[Porkchop]

One thing that I've learned, is that just because it's 5 discs, doesn't make it immune to Cons.

IMO its not a 5 if its got a cons .......... therefore I don't believe I've played a 5 yet. Once I play a perfect course I'll let you know (and if you think you've played the end all be all perfect course your nuts and should't be reviewing courses).

 

[BrotherDave]

It really does!

Brother Dave, I'm actually thinking about bumping my rating of Castle Hayne to 5. I may need to play there again, before I give a definitive answer to that. Your thoughts?

I wouldn't fault you for rating it a 5. You can't blame the Castle for not having much elevation, which is its biggest con. I would absolutely rate it a 5 if they had some alternate tees but my understanding is that the club or the park one isn't having that for some dumb reason. But its got a great design, benches on every hole, length, placement holes, and a great local scene. Can't get much better than that. :thmbup:

IMO its not a 5 if its got a cons .......... therefore I don't believe I've played a 5 yet. Once I play a perfect course I'll let you know (and if you think you've played the end all be all perfect course your nuts and should't be reviewing courses).

By that logic then you'll never rate a 5 b/c there's no such thing as a perfect course. It cheapens the rating scale if you don't include 0s and 5s, causes too fat of a battleship curve.

 

[cydisc]

I don't think of 5's as an absolute. It's a threshold. I have a set of criteria and if it nails all of them, it gets a 5. But there's also the ancillary features that will make one 5 more attractive than another 5. I haven't played a 5 yet, either. Although that might be a possibility next Spring.

Also, why is it so windy in Iowa? Because the Gophers suck.

 

[Porkchop]

By that logic then you'll never rate a 5 b/c there's no such thing as a perfect course. It cheapens the rating scale if you don't include 0s and 5s, causes too fat of a battleship curve.

I don't think of 5's as an absolute. It's a threshold. I have a set of criteria and if it nails all of them, it gets a 5. But there's also the ancillary features that will make one 5 more attractive than another 5. I haven't played a 5 yet, either. Although that might be a possibility next Spring.

OK I was probably being a bit facetious when I said it has to be perfect to be a 5. There could always be more water, more elevation, more woods, bentgrass fairways, beer girls, or golf carts ...... so no, perfect isn't really that obtainable. I would agree with cydisc that 5 isn't an absolute. When I think of a 5 it has to be a course that has no major design flaws and wows you. I have yet to play a course that doesn't have a design flaw or not missing a key amenity. I think too often people get caught up in the wow factor and are then numb to or choose to ignore the design flaws or missing must have amenities.

Let's look at Idlewild. There are 5 disc ratings that list these cons ....
- You have to cross a fairway to get to a tee (major design no no)
- Tricky navigation at times, needs next tee arrows in some spots
- Nothing on the tee sign to signify what pin placement the hole is in
- Overuse of artificial OB at times
- No short tees
- Overly tight for shot shape required at times

These same issues are the only cons the people that rated the course 4.5 listed as well, however they signified this in their rating. These people, like me, see that if there is a design con or flaw it should be noted in the rating ....... shouldn't we all????