Snap Vs. Timing, Maxing at 350

[horsethief]

I think you hit on a point that would be easy for me to overlook when trying to find a new timing for opening my shoulders. That the elbow should be further forward. I agree with you that my front shoulder is likely already on its way back/around when my arm is swinging out, and this is what causes my inability to hold on to the disc for any longer amount of time.

I don't really use muscles in my shoulder/tricep to pull the disc closer to my right peck before chopping my elbow out...likely the disc is being thrown from my left peck or the center of my chest, although this is from me going through the motions/feel rather than direct video evidence. This however is exactly in line with how you describe 350ft Teebird throwers.

The disc will most likely be beyond your right pec when you get your elbow all the way forward, unless you have really short arms.

It's very common in the 350' max teebird range for every video i've watched to go something like this: reachback, begin turning shoulders and swinging arm forward. Disc gets to somewhere in the neighborhood of the right pec, and then the elbow chop starts happening simultaneously to the shoulders opening up. Their shoulders rotate in one constant motion, so there's never any time to get their elbow forward.

I'm going to watch some video now of pro's throwing drives so I can see where their elbows are before extending/chopping. To you guys who have broken this plateau, is there an actual "pull" of your arm/elbow forward simultaneous to the hip/shoulder rotation, to get the disc near the right peck position before chopping your elbow open?

Thanks again for that detailed post

For me, I use a little bit of muscle to get the elbow all the way forward. The initial momentum is generated by the half-turn you do after your reach back. The little muscle that you do use is mostly just guiding the disc forward.

What is probably more important is the tempo of the throw. The first 95% or so of the throw should be very fluid, smooth and relaxed. This would be all the way up until "pounding the hammer." Even the hammer pound itself doesn't have to be some crazy karate kid hammer pound where you're trying to bury the nail in 1 hit. Just a nice strong hammer pound that would need another 3-4 pounds like it to get the nail all the way in.

This will get you all the way to the palm ejection/disc pivot phase of the throw (the end of the "in" motion, and start of the "out" motion). From here (this is where your shoulders/torso actually start to do something), I would use words like explosive, powerful, fast, hard, etc... But this last "powerful" phase is literally for like a couple inches of the entire throw. Even if you did nothing with your shoulders in the "out" motion of the throw, the disc would still be leaving, there's nothing you could do to stop it.

 

[slowplastic]

This all really makes sense, and I think you have really shown me what my focus should be on.

The main thing is as you said...shoulders opening too early which leads to them swinging back as I get extension. When I move my elbow forward a little bit during my hip rotation/shoulder rotation, my shoulders are still parallel with the target by the time I start my elbow chop...whereas they would usually already be opened up by maybe 20 degrees. Going through the motions with a towel snap shows me the subtle change I will have to make...but obviously this will take some experimentation on the field with a disc to get the actual timing and flow correct.

You've put these things into words very well, so it's easy for me to understand and "feel" what to do, so I have my problem identified. I understand too what you mean by just guiding the disc with the elbow...the forward motion is already initiated by the larger muscle groups, so I just have to get the elbow/disc further forward with a little bit of guide pull before I really start to chop/swing. I understand the wrist feel that the hammer pound should give me, but I have had trouble (impossible!) holding on to the disc for long enough with my current throw...so hopefully with some experimentation here this feel should happen automatically.

I do remember last fall when I learned how to throw from a standstill, I was throwing Rocs about 240-250 that afternoon. I had one freak throw that I felt my wrist fully open up while the disc was still in my grip somehow, and the throw was dead straight 300+, which I had never done with a Roc like that before that point. This gave me the feel of the snap (I believe the only time I've done it for real) and it just happened automatically...so I guess that shows me that once I get this motion down, it should all just work/flow by itself.

 

[slowplastic]

Another update:

(I will try to update when I have made interesting progress, or hit bad roadblocks. I know while I was lurking and learning, I always found it useful when the OP would have "closure" by telling what worked/didn't work so I could learn from it, so I hope this thread helps others too)

Skip to bottom underlined section if you don't want to read extra stuff

I hit the field to try to find a new feel/timing, and did so using only stand-still throws, and only putters and midrange discs. I've heard the narrow rims help with feeling the pivot/hit, and also I wanted to keep myself honest from OAT by throwing a beat classic Aviar and Shark that absolutely punish bad throws.

I initially tried to get the elbow a bit forward like I found could work when doing towel snaps indoors, and while analyzing what positions would keep my shoulders parallel at elbow chop. Didn't work at all. When I tried to move the elbow maybe 6" ahead of where it would have been then I think my acceleration was not smooth anymore because I would just burn Aviars and anhyzer midranges. When things did come off clean, there was no "hit" of any kind and discs just floated out to the field like they used to last year for me. I think this just spread the acceleration over a longer arm distance, so there was no "hit" at all.

I played around with that for a while and felt discouraged, and went back to my old throw. Luckily it wasn't ruined and I could still hit the same distances as before on command.

Then I tried getting the elbow way forward. And I felt the disc pushed into the palm like has been mentioned a few times. From here, the disc just bounces out of my hand. My releases were clean again, and I felt a small amount of increased velocity, especially on putters. Distances (stand-still) seemed to be 280+ (only twice) with an Anode, 300-310 with Roc/Shark, and 310 consistently with a Core (but this was hit once with less than 5' height, normally 8-10' height).

Question/Issue (Skip to here)
Now that I am getting the elbow out forward and feeling the disc weight against my palm, and it essentially "bouncing" out...I am assuming the disc pivot comes after this bounce? By the time I got to this point I was pretty tired and couldn't get a good pinch happening anymore. I was trying to wait until I could feel this pressure of the disc on my palm to accelerate outwards, but I still didn't feel more of a pivot than before...but it did feel good. A few times I also felt the disc pulling against my rip fingers after the bounce, which I believe is a good feeling.

I know this isn't where I want to be yet, but I have heard half-hit distance with a Roc is ~330 and full hit is 360+. I am stand-still at 300-310 and would be surprised if with an X-step I couldn't get 320-330'. Is this palm-bounce feel that I have a half-hit or am I still completely missing the feel I should be going for?

 

[horsethief]

I know this isn't where I want to be yet, but I have heard half-hit distance with a Roc is ~330 and full hit is 360+. I am stand-still at 300-310 and would be surprised if with an X-step I couldn't get 320-330'. Is this palm-bounce feel that I have a half-hit or am I still completely missing the feel I should be going for?

I don't think you get the palm ejection feeling on a half hit, only on a full hit.

From Blake:

-most body motions are over-rated. i've found a 20 degree body rotation with no reach back can still yield a 275'+ throw with a small arm twitch and using no leg power. increasing the body rotation on reach back to 90 degrees seems to add about 40' (~15%). adding 18"+ of reach back seems to add about 25' (~9%). adding a full run up adds about 40' (~15%). those three things together are noticeable but if you work from a 275' baseline with a midrange disc, a full body rotation, full reach back, and utilizing the legs are responsible for roughly 27.6% of the throw. read as: about 10" of motion mainly focusing on the wrist, hand, and fingers is roughly 72.4% of the throw.

So adding your x-step should add ~40', so yeah, that was probably a half-hit. The feeling you are describing with the palm ejection doesn't sound like what I feel, so maybe you can try to tweak things a little bit.

For me, when it bounces off my palm, i don't really have a choice about it pivoting, even if i let it come out of my lock fingers easily, it would still pivot. In other words, the pivot is a reaction to the wrist/fingers pulling on the disc as the wrist slams open.

One thing I would try, is when you get your elbow forward, make sure you are pounding the hammer, let your wrist slam open. If you get a feel for that, you can accelerate it to the open position. I would leave your wrist pretty flappy (other than maintaining a nose-down orientation) to get a feel for it.

I would also be careful about:

When I tried to move the elbow maybe 6" ahead of where it would have been then I think my acceleration was not smooth anymore because I would just burn Aviars and anhyzer midranges. When things did come off clean, there was no "hit" of any kind and discs just floated out to the field like they used to last year for me. I think this just spread the acceleration over a longer arm distance, so there was no "hit" at all.

If you are anywhere near 100% acceleration when you're getting your elbow forward, that is not what I experience. I would say i'm at maybe 50% speed, tops. For me, i'm just cruising in, gliding, smooth, fluid -- I'm not trying to be fast, or even concentrating on accelerating. I'm just thinking about a nice solid hammer pound. Only after the palm ejection am I trying to really hit the NOS button. That's just me though, maybe somebody else can chime in?

 

[Mocheez]

Agreed, per Blake...

"one thing is not to try to go too fast before you really feel the weight manipulation. often people "get it" when i have them move as slow as possible."

 

[slowplastic]

Cool, some of those things are pretty reassuring to hear. The field I was on was kind of short (parking lot on one end, bushes on the other, 340' length) so I didn't see what fairways did for me, but that will be interesting to see how it adds up when I practice somewhere else.

I do have a fluid/slow throw, people always tell me that I don't do much with my feet and it looks very smooth, so I don't think I am accelerating very early (that whole issue when I was burning discs, I wasn't trying to accelerate early...I just know there was no one "point" when the disc was being shot out). Either way I abandoned that arm orientation and feel.

It's good to know that the disc in palm feeling is what to go for as a starting point (even if my timing on it isn't perfect yet). I was trying to move everything forwards (arm/elbow) until I felt that weight against my hand, then try to shoot my elbow and wrist "outwards" at that point. I think I am feeling the right things, and just need to time that later acceleration correctly, as you describe you wait until that moment to hammer the muscles close to 100%. I do notice that with my elbow this much in front of me, my rotational follow-through is way faster than usual, my body just gets spun around completely and I have no choice about it.

One thing about the distances I am seeing, I am throwing everything in the field on normal golf lines, Rocs that are going ~300ft are released essentially flat and no higher than 10' off the ground, and they land with almost no fade. Putters that are over 270 are also only 15' high and drop without really any fade. A big difference I notice is that I can see the discs are still spinning across the grass when they land, so I know I am imparting more spin on the disc than I used to. But, to get up to the 350' midrange throws, should I be throwing them 20'+? I'm just not sure if maybe I am getting some of this distance/snap since I see the spin, but I'm just not giving the mids enough height to show me? (My fairways I hyzer flip more often so they naturally rise much easier than my mids, so the max D and fade with them I trust is what is happening).

Again I really appreciate all of the detailed replies and time people have spent helping me throw some plastic farther. I do know that this thread is/will be helping others as well, there are lots of useful explanations and ideas in here that I haven't seen in other threads quite the same way.

 

[horsethief]

I do have a fluid/slow throw, people always tell me that I don't do much with my feet and it looks very smooth, so I don't think I am accelerating very early (that whole issue when I was burning discs, I wasn't trying to accelerate early...I just know there was no one "point" when the disc was being shot out). Either way I abandoned that arm orientation and feel.

Yeah, I don't really feel like the disc shoots out either, just a really strong flinging sensation.

It's good to know that the disc in palm feeling is what to go for as a starting point (even if my timing on it isn't perfect yet). I was trying to move everything forwards (arm/elbow) until I felt that weight against my hand, then try to shoot my elbow and wrist "outwards" at that point. I think I am feeling the right things, and just need to time that later acceleration correctly, as you describe you wait until that moment to hammer the muscles close to 100%. I do notice that with my elbow this much in front of me, my rotational follow-through is way faster than usual, my body just gets spun around completely and I have no choice about it.

Maybe you aren't slamming your wrist open hard enough, so you're getting a really weak palm ejection? When you get your elbow forward, and arm extended, your shoulders can accelerate your arm 99999x faster than you could ever dream of by just trying to move your arm by itself. This is probably why it feels so much faster. When people open their shoulders up too early, their shoulders will max out on how far they can turn before they have a chance to really pull the arm.

One thing about the distances I am seeing, I am throwing everything in the field on normal golf lines, Rocs that are going ~300ft are released essentially flat and no higher than 10' off the ground, and they land with almost no fade. Putters that are over 270 are also only 15' high and drop without really any fade. A big difference I notice is that I can see the discs are still spinning across the grass when they land, so I know I am imparting more spin on the disc than I used to. But, to get up to the 350' midrange throws, should I be throwing them 20'+? I'm just not sure if maybe I am getting some of this distance/snap since I see the spin, but I'm just not giving the mids enough height to show me? (My fairways I hyzer flip more often so they naturally rise much easier than my mids, so the max D and fade with them I trust is what is happening).

for a 350'+ roc throw, I would estimate the height to be closer to 15' off the ground. I aim for a flat release at ~chest-height, and they just go up by themselves. You can try aiming a little higher and see what happens (it never hurts to try/experiment), the worst that will happen is they start to stall out and fall to the ground. My eyes aren't good enough to see if they're still spinning when they land so I can't give you any input on that , although based on their flight, I would say they still had a good amount of spin on them.

 

[slowplastic]

I was hoping because of all of the work and reading I have been doing that I would just blast through this plateau, it it really is a weird one that you just have to "get" I guess...it's the timing and feel. Had some trouble yesterday trying to feel the "power pocket" if that's what it's called when the disc's weight starts to get heavy into your palm (is that right?) with your elbow out front then accelerate...but I was doing too much rotational path rather than straight line with the disc. Once that got sorted out I was back to where I was before, but no more progress.

Anyways, I have a small question about hammer pound. I've done the drills and thought they made sense. I play drums too so I relate it to that feel...you wait for the weight of the disc (or stick) to initiate some motion, then you help it along with your wrist. In the case of a drumstick you are going from open wrist to a closed wrist, gravity is helping the stick drop. But there's still a pinch point between thumb/index where the stick rotates (like pinch point on a disc) and you help accelerate it by pushing the rear of the stick upwards with the pinky/ring fingers while flicking the wrist down. With perfect feel you can get a massive attack like someone unskilled would use their whole forearm for, but your arm is kind of floating.

In hammer pounds (backhand) my feel is to move my arm outwards, once I feel the disc's momentum outwards I further push it out with my wrist, and it wants to sling/pivot a bit around my index finger. However, this does not mimic the feeling of the disc's weight going "into" my palm at all, that I have felt on some better timed throws). Should the hammer pound mimic this feeling as well, or is the hammer pound just to show people who don't know about wrist use/pivot to feel for a wrist motion, and I'm passed that point?

Reason being, when I've tried to make a hammer pound "happen" during my throw, I must be doing it a bit early because I get massive torque on the disc and it flutters (I'm probably accelerating it way harder than it can handle for its spin). I assume that means my timing is wacky when I do that. Likely I just have to keep adjusting when my elbow/shoulder unload and I'll feel that wrist/palm popping feeling, and once that is consistent I can try to add force to the actual hammer pound/opening motion on subsequent throws. I assume adding force to a hammer pound that isn't naturally happening already is just going to be OAT-city.

I know I need to keep playing with the elbow timing to unload at the right time with my shoulder swing...right now there isn't a time when I feel I need to pinch hard or that my grip matters. No matter how tight/loose I grip (within reason) right now the disc pops out at the same place. The flights are fine and I'm happy with 300' midrange standing throws...but I know it's possible to have so much more!

 

[horsethief]

I was hoping because of all of the work and reading I have been doing that I would just blast through this plateau, it it really is a weird one that you just have to "get" I guess...it's the timing and feel. Had some trouble yesterday trying to feel the "power pocket" if that's what it's called when the disc's weight starts to get heavy into your palm (is that right?) with your elbow out front then accelerate...but I was doing too much rotational path rather than straight line with the disc. Once that got sorted out I was back to where I was before, but no more progress.

The heavy disc feeling is if you're using the "rail" method, as opposed to the hammer pound method. I haven't explored that much yet, so I can't really give you any advice on that. I don't know about the "heavy in your palm" feeling either, with the "hammer pound" method, I don't feel that at all.

Anyways, I have a small question about hammer pound. I've done the drills and thought they made sense. I play drums too so I relate it to that feel...you wait for the weight of the disc (or stick) to initiate some motion, then you help it along with your wrist. In the case of a drumstick you are going from open wrist to a closed wrist, gravity is helping the stick drop. But there's still a pinch point between thumb/index where the stick rotates (like pinch point on a disc) and you help accelerate it by pushing the rear of the stick upwards with the pinky/ring fingers while flicking the wrist down. With perfect feel you can get a massive attack like someone unskilled would use their whole forearm for, but your arm is kind of floating.

I used to play the drums too, so I know what you are talking about. The feeling with the drumsticks is much closer to the mechanics/feel of a sidearm throw.

Backhand is a different animal though, it relies on very specific body positions to make things happen the way they should. I know what you're saying about your arm floating though, to me that's a good way to describe the feeling as your bringing the disc across your chest and getting your elbow all the way forward.

In hammer pounds (backhand) my feel is to move my arm outwards, once I feel the disc's momentum outwards I further push it out with my wrist, and it wants to sling/pivot a bit around my index finger. However, this does not mimic the feeling of the disc's weight going "into" my palm at all, that I have felt on some better timed throws). Should the hammer pound mimic this feeling as well, or is the hammer pound just to show people who don't know about wrist use/pivot to feel for a wrist motion, and I'm passed that point?

Something seems off here, maybe your shoulders are firing too early. In a hammer pound, you just kind of fling your forearm forward, your wrist lags behind, and then your wrist slams open (think of a broken shudder) when your forearm stops. Remember, your shoulders are still pretty much parallel to the target when this is happening. Slam your wrist open, then pull with your shoulders. In... Out...

Reason being, when I've tried to make a hammer pound "happen" during my throw, I must be doing it a bit early because I get massive torque on the disc and it flutters (I'm probably accelerating it way harder than it can handle for its spin). I assume that means my timing is wacky when I do that. Likely I just have to keep adjusting when my elbow/shoulder unload and I'll feel that wrist/palm popping feeling, and once that is consistent I can try to add force to the actual hammer pound/opening motion on subsequent throws. I assume adding force to a hammer pound that isn't naturally happening already is just going to be OAT-city.

Something is definitely wrong here. I think i covered it up above though.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220#p292777

In the above link, pay special attention to part 3, drill 5. Also make note of this when you're doing it:

Your wrist should be opening all the way and there should be a noticeable recoil bounce back.

I find it helpful to focus on swinging your forearm forward as opposed to swinging your wrist/hand forward. If i swing my forearm forward, my wrist lags behind (flapping in the breeze), and then my wrist slams open when i "pound" it. If I focus on the wrist, it just doesn't work the same. When your wrist is flapping open, you accelerate it, but it has to begin flapping open by itself.

When you do it on the field, you will be accelerating your wrist as it's flapping open, and accelerate it into a locked forward position (the position you reach right before your wrist recoils and bounces back -- read part 5 in the DGR link about aiming). Your thumb will probably be pointing pretty much exactly where the disc will be going if you do this right.

Also, to throw your mid's out to 300'+, you don't need to do a karate kid hammer pound. Just a nice strong one, nothing crazy. Followed by a nice tug with your shoulders (maybe 50-75% effort). You don't need to go crazy and go for some world record attempt, just relax, be smooth and fluid.

 

[slowplastic]

Excellent, thanks for the clarification on the hammer pound. I feel silly that I've done lots of wrist-flicking with a disc in the past, but I am now getting a more similar feel now to what I've experienced in throws that I believe I have half-hit. I was putting too much emphasis on my wrist and not enough on stopping the elbow to cause the wrist.

Agreed shoulder timing with my elbow is what is likely throwing this off, and I'll concentrate on getting this hammer pound feeling more rather than worrying about the whole disc to palm feeling along the way. If that happens it happens I guess, but I'll just try to arrive at the end point of the wrist opening/hammer pound however the timing works out.

There's just so much info in all of the technique threads, and I can read the same explanations 10 times at different points in my learning to throw and different things make more sense each time. I understand on a diagram how the in/out motion with the shoulder will work and really fling the disc out...I just have to figure out how to feel it now!

 

[horsethief]

Try to just do the hammer pound into clamped forward lock position without using your shoulders at all (try to keep them parallel without opening them up), while playing catch with someone -- maybe 150' to 200' apart, start close, and get further away once you get a feel for it. Once you feel comfortable with this, pound the hammer and then try to tug it with your shoulders

 

[slowplastic]

The heavy disc feeling is if you're using the "rail" method, as opposed to the hammer pound method. I haven't explored that much yet, so I can't really give you any advice on that. I don't know about the "heavy in your palm" feeling either, with the "hammer pound" method, I don't feel that at all.

This key piece of info I think makes a lot of sense. Looking at the diagrams here: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25241 it's shown that the hand is "outside" of the disc on the rail method. I mentioned that when I was practicing last time I had issues with not pulling the disc in a straight enough line...this goes directly with the rail arc and trying to feel the disc accelerate into my hand. I'm doing a circular motion and the disc is pushing outwards against my hand, which was keeping it on the path. This is also why I wasn't feeling the same wrist opening at the point I was able to get to before I had to release.

Once I went back to a straight line pull I was again using more of a hammer pound arc and things went back to normal. Thanks for clearing that up, it helped put the diagrams into my mind of what I was doing, and that they do feel different.

 

[slowplastic]

I haven't had a chance to go out again yet, but I have been re-reading lots of this stuff and doing towel snaps/hammer pounds/disc weight and pivot stuff and ideas are getting better into my head. I just want to say thanks again to you guys who have posted in here already, all of the advice keeps making more and more sense now that I realize that the "palm bounce" feeling I was getting is a half-hit, and I'm understanding the arcs more and more that I will have to incorporate to do this...and to accelerate through.

Just to say for others who may be reading this for help, this thread here and especially posts by Mocheez in it are quite useful I think: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-89771.html

The hardest thing is it seems like some terms we use give us other thoughts/notions about feel that aren't necessarily what they should be. For example the "pull through" isn't really a pull...I bet this causes beginners to strong arm and people without snap to try to linearly accelerate (like I was doing). As well the "snap" isn't really snapping your fingers shut (from the disc ripping out) from what I have felt...which is a problem because that's what "normal" throws feel like to people who haven't felt the wrist open to shoot the disc out! Basically, until there's taste of what the extension feels like, none of these terms make sense! And it just happens correctly when it does.

I can't wait to go to the field again now that I'm more sure on what feelings to aim for, and once I can achieve that to try to incorporate more shoulder/acceleration through it. I just expected to launch the disc 50' more when I "snapped", but I think I was nearly maxing out a no-snap throw, so a half-hit throw is going to be ballpark the same distance. I have to focus on feel change, and not only on how far the disc goes. When I do things to consistently strengthen that feel, then the disc will go further.

 

[ed IV]

Thanx for the thread slow. Lots of insight and food for thought. I havent been able to throw rounds as much as I would like this season and am taking the opportunity to rebuild my throw. What I will say is that at this point I realize that Im not any longer than I was two years ago BUT I have as much practical distance from a standstill as with a full run up. Ill be doing fieldwork and report anything relivant.

 

[slowplastic]

Another update with some footage to get a bit of advice.

I did some throwing today, things are feeling ok but I know my timing isn't right yet. I'm getting some whip into the disc and my wrist is hinging, but I am not getting the palm-bounce feeling that I described before. Basically I feel like when I do a long reachback, I guide the disc back towards my chest (it feels almost "inwards") and I feel it float/change weight a little while my elbow goes out, then I start to try to really power it around. I get some natural hinge like I said but no real hard pivot or ejection. The distance I get is the same as before, no real increase, but it is less effort and more spin.

I think I need to get my elbow out further, which will keep my hand on the disc longer while my shoulders open up, so that my arm will go "sideways" outwards while I am still holding on to the disc. This should help me get that bounce feeling again. My problem today was when I experimented with that a little bit, I was getting a lot more force on the disc but it wasn't clean, and the disc was getting a OAT-like wobble. I think it will take some adjusting of really changing my elbow timing to get the snap/bounce feeling to happen naturally, since it's just not happening in the form in this video clip.

Another thing, is my grip felt pretty loose the whole time. A few times I tried to adjust pinching down hard right when the disc started to get the weightless/change feeling and I got more spin imparted in the disc which is a good thing, but I still wasn't getting that bouncing ejection feeling. My timing and likely elbow are just off.

One of my concerns is my hips. I load up on reachback a little funny looking apparently when looked at from the side, but I hope that is ok. My hips are really turned back, and I think I used to do a lot of -90 to 0 degree (0 = hips parallel to target) acceleration to get my throw up to speed in my older form. Now I think it will be more important to get a 0 degree to +90 degree acceleration with new timing...is that right? I think that's why the side view looks a little wacky...my hips are maybe leading the throw in the -90 to 0 portion, rather than the 0 to +90 portion.

About the video, I just chose a couple shots that had decent angle of ok releases. I had already been throwing for an hour+ and in these shots was just concentrating on clean release at about 70% power. It looks like I toe pivot, but the pivot is initially on the heels, then I turn to toe afterwards during late follow-through, so I imagine that is ok (hiking boots make it awkward...).

Thanks for any insight!

http://vimeo.com/101186852

 

[Mocheez]

You aren't braced against your front leg and are spinning out. Your left knee should be pointing at the target at the hit. As a result, your posture isn't good, look at your spine at the :44 second mark. Also, try bringing your elbow up higher.

 

[slowplastic]

Thank you. I also realized after looking at this more that my knee comes "around", and on pro drives the knee goes "into" the front leg, then they spin around.

Do I turn my hips unnecessarily far back on the reachback?

And also thank you Mocheez, the contributions you made to the thread I listed above were quite helpful.

 

[Mocheez]

You want the disc to be close to your chest but your elbow should be extended out in front. You are bringing your elbow in and alligator arming the throw.

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks, I'll work on elbow position to help my timing (hopefully this will get me towards getting that bounce feeling back), and knee alignment for better power transfer and balance. Hopefully those will get me closer and then I can evaluate what more needs to be done.

 

[Mocheez]

Yes, I think you have the right ideas in terms of timing, it's just a matter of fixing some of the body positions so that you can explode efficiently and with everything on a level plane.