[Westside] Sorcerer with amateur photography included.

[pask2155]

Do you see TP or VIP having more glide? Or are they generally the same? Not real familiar with this plastic...

 

[nolangherity]

guess what weirdos, westside is not innova. stop comparing their flight numbers and go throw your terns and dominators and whatever.

 

[SpikeHyzer]

Do you see TP or VIP having more glide? Or are they generally the same? Not real familiar with this plastic...

I have found the VIP to have more glide. All the TP's that I have are flatter where as the VIP's have a bit more dome on them.

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

I have found the VIP to have more glide. All the TP's that I have are flatter where as the VIP's have a bit more dome on them.

Agree with everything SpikeHyzer says, although I will qualify by saying that I feel the VIP have "a bit" more glide, but not enough for it's rating to really be different than the TP version... they both bomb for me, and I feel the glide rating of '6' is pretty accurate for both plastics.

 

[pask2155]

I'm just bummed how understable this disc is. I get we shouldn't put westsides flight rating against innovas. But 0 turn is 0 turn and a speed 13 disc! Unless in Finland they have different air then is because of elevation. 425' of power shouldn't shift the flight ratings of a speed 13 disc to be understable!

 

[SteezeOG]

I'm just bummed how understable this disc is. I get we shouldn't put westsides flight rating against innovas. But 0 turn is 0 turn and a speed 13 disc! Unless in Finland they have different air then is because of elevation. 425' of power shouldn't shift the flight ratings of a speed 13 disc to be understable!

Elevation means thinner air which means more stable flight. So yeah lol. Also the 0 is not for a category of turn. That's not even a category for innova's system. It's a category for high speed stability. It's all subjective and that is the case regardless of disc or manufacturer. I'd personally say 13/6/-1/1 but I've got one opaque VIP sorcerer so it's a small sample size.

It's kind of why I spend my time, money, taking pictures, and throwing discs even if I don't think it will become something I use. To help people avoid buying discs they don't need or won't like. I don't get anything out of it. I had this thread up a day before they went on sale online. Anyone could have read it and seen it's similar to a Havoc and has high speed turn and saved themselves the time or money. But...it's subjective to each arm and each player. I know a lot of people who just don't use hyzer lines at all and throw everything flat and hard and when it turns they call it flippy. To me that's not flippy. That's throwing a stable disc in a manner that is going to make it seem understable. Moar hyzor!

 

[pask2155]

Yeah if know what you mean. And notice I never said flippy. I said understable. Meaning at my power released with hyzer it still lands right of center. Just wanted a point and shoot disc with extreme glide!!! This isn't it.

I've thrown them more and the TP is prolly a -3,1 and VIP is prolly -1,1.

For anyone wanting to know what this disc is like- to me it's a faster tern.

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

I've thrown them more and the TP is prolly a -3,1...

Wow, I don't see this at all... I will probably be picking one or two more of these up at the DD shop tomorrow and will compare against the two currently in my bag and report back any differences.

Curious, what weight(s) is/are your Sorcerer(s)?

 

[PMantle]

I do not see mine as being a faster Tern. It's more like a Tern that falls somewhere between Champ and Star. Even my GStar is more stable. I do not see it staying ITB.

 

[Karl]

A couple of people stated things akin to "...that's how they fly in Finland / because of Finland's altitude..." and that has me confused. How is Finland that different than the US (regarding height above sea level)? The max. altitude in Finland is - if I recall my HS Geography - a little more than 1300m (4000 ft) and most is obviously a lot lower than that. Sort of the same as most US places, no? So any difference(s) in their ratings are NOT attributed to their test throwing it at different heights - it's more a case of the entire disc flight rating systems thing is subjective at best. Buy one (or better yet, borrow one from a friend), test 'em out, and decide for yourself. One of the funner things in dg anyway!

Karl

 

[pask2155]

Wow, I don't see this at all... I will probably be picking one or two more of these up at the DD shop tomorrow and will compare against the two currently in my bag and report back any differences.

Curious, what weight(s) is/are your Sorcerer(s)?

My TP is 169g. And my VIP is 174g.

I wonder how a 175 TP would fly?

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

Ok, thanks to the great folks at the DD shop in Emporia, I now have the following:

170g TP
173g TP (new today)
172g VIP (new today)
175g VIP

When I got home tonight I went out and threw all four over and over in my back acreage, both directly with and against the wonderful 15+mph S->N winds we're having today.

With a clean release, either flat (tailwind) or with a bit of hyzer (headwind) at max power I could get these to turn, but they always...always...came back. I threw each disc 40 times in each direction (10 trips tailwind, 10 trips headwind).

Tailwind drives averaged ~415' with a few in the 425' range. Headwind drives were slightly less, ~375' average with a few in the 400' range. I was trying to keep these fairly low because of the strong winds, 10-12ft on tailwinds and headwinds lifted them to 15-20ft or so.

The only drive I had that didn't come back was with the 173g TP disc, and that was entirely due to bad form on my part. (Back acreage is infested with stupid moles or voles and I stepped in a soft spot from one of their tunnels and grip-locked.)

The disc that had the most propensity for turning was the 175g VIP, which also has the least amount of flashing on it. I haven't attempted to remove or reduce the flashing on any of these.

At my power level I'll stand by the -1 rating I said that they have for turn on the "Innova scale" when they're new or close to new. I'd say these are very similar to a Champ Tern with not quite as much turn, no where nearly as flippy as a Bolt, King or even a Havoc (which for me have a tendency to flip and not fight back when thrown into headwinds).

As always disc flight is very dependent on the individual throwers power level and form and YMMV.

It will be interested to see what happens when these wear in a bit more...

 

[PerpetualNewbie]

Ok, quick follow-up to my last post.

I'm still finding the Sorcerer to be a great disc in direct headwinds and tailwinds, but have found that both plastics will tend to flip over and not fight back from a left-to-right crosswind when thrown RHBH unless thrown with quite a bit of hyzer angle.

Still really digging the mold, just have to be pretty mindful of this though.

 

[ed IV]

...first throws reflect flight numbers for me. White VIP 171 thrown as second drive vs 175 GL halo show similar HSS and slightly less air speed and LSS. It was ending 30-50 short of halo on similar lines. I just manually defashed and will report back.

 

[ed IV]

or with the halo 13/5/-1/2.8 sorcerer= 12/6/-1/2 nomsayn

 

[danostrowski]

After throwing my Sorcerers in Tourney plastic, there's no way it's 0 turn, hah. Even just short throws out to ~400 or so I was seeing turn. About as stable as my Cranks, honestly.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Even just short throws out to ~400 or so

400ft is a short throw, really?

 

[danostrowski]

400ft is a short throw, really?

What I meant was the disc turns even when not at the DISC'S top-end range. Pros and big power throwers will throw this disc ~500 ft, and it's got to be even flippier at that distance.

400' is a longish throw for me, with my current form, it's a short throw with the Sorcerer for where my form should be and people with proper form throw. I think any able bodied person can physically throw 450' with a high speed driver, you just have to put the work in to fix the form up.

 

[curveball4]

I threw my 174 TP for the first time yesterday & it was definitely less stable than I expected. My main driver is a very seasoned Bio Trespass (thanks Dehaas) & I thought this might be a good stable compliment. Uh........no!
I'm guessing I probably max out around 375, maybe more on a good day (maybe 680' interweb distance!) & this thing was turning from the first throw. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a great flyer, may even push out the Trespass. But even for my noodle it's nowhere near the numbers

 

[pmorgan1214]

finally got to throw my sorcerer more than just a few times. Holy moly the glide. This thing is amazing. First off I will start with Westside does not know how to rate the flight #'s. I would say the sorcerer is 13 6 -2 2. It is slightly understable but will hyzer back every time unless you throw it too low. I had my farthest drive on hole 18 at Harbin park yesterday. 480 foot hole I threw it about 50 feet away. missed the putt... I will definitely be using this disc as a go to distance control driver.