[Innova] STAR Thunderbirds... why are they not in production?

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

If it is true that star plastic is going extinct tgen I say innova should halt production of ALL star plastic except for destroyers.

 

[Magicweed]

If it is true that star plastic is going extinct tgen I say innova should halt production of ALL star plastic except for destroyers.

I think they should talk to the Ricos over at Legacy and steal a little of their Icon blend and make it just a bit stiffer with the same grippy feel. Current run Icon is some of the best feeling plastic in my bag.

 

[hugheshilton]

To people saying that Innova wants to force GStar on the disc buying public, I would ask why? What motive could Innova possibly have for forcing GStar on people unless it had to do with either GStar being cheaper to produce or Star going away?

To those saying that the demand for GStar is way higher than Star, I would say that I kind of doubt it, at least among the hardcore, traditional Innova fans (and there are a lot of those out there). I know that there are lots of normal people who don't know any different and those people will buy GStar or Star or Champ or whatever looks cooler when they're at the store. But among those who are serious disc golfers, I think there are a lot more who love Star than who love GStar.

 

[broomerang]

I wouldn't call it forcing at all. I would call it common business sense. A disc company can only produce a set number of discs in a set number of plastics at any given production cycle. They are limited by space, machines, workers, and raw materials at all times. If they have been running mostly GStar lately (as all indicators with recent releases this seems to be a logical conclusion), then they will likely have been running MUCH fewer Star plastic at that same time. Thus why you're seeing a lot of "backstock" of older star plastic hit the shelves until the next production cycle can be ramped back up and pushed out. It would not suprise me at all if right now they have already switched to producing Star in bulk again now that GStar has hit the shelves in force. Remember what you see in stores in months behind the products coming of the production lines.

It doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with the lack of Star blend at the factory, that is 100% conjecture and likely is not even well educated conjecture. I'm no Innova fanboy, I don't even bag a single mold. I'm just giving you the facts (or more accurately, the lack thereof).

All mass produced goods deal with the same production cycle. Changing any variable on the production line will increase the amount of time to produce the same amount of goods and thus reduce potential profit. Its very common to run the same exact set up for 3-4 months in a factory to build a stock before changing the line around to produce a different product.

 

[cjman]

My local shop got a big Innova order (500+) in yesterday. All of the new run star was just a tad stiffer than Gstar. Destroyers and bosses with floppy flight plates and flexy bendy rims. The only firm, frippy stsr I could find was patent numbered leopards, old firebirds, and other clear old inventory molds.

Innova does things that save them money. Blizzard enhanced champion to allow for fewer overweight x outs. Plus molds have take over, and are easier to extract from the mold. Both of these were posted by innova. I think star is on the way out. The high demand for Gstar helps the transition.

 

[BirdieMachine]

To people saying that Innova wants to force GStar on the disc buying public, I would ask why? What motive could Innova possibly have for forcing GStar on people unless it had to do with either GStar being cheaper to produce or Star going away?

To those saying that the demand for GStar is way higher than Star, I would say that I kind of doubt it, at least among the hardcore, traditional Innova fans (and there are a lot of those out there). I know that there are lots of normal people who don't know any different and those people will buy GStar or Star or Champ or whatever looks cooler when they're at the store. But among those who are serious disc golfers, I think there are a lot more who love Star than who love GStar.

I already ran a poll among DGCR and Star won fairly handily.

 

[hugheshilton]

I wouldn't call it forcing at all. I would call it common business sense. A disc company can only produce a set number of discs in a set number of plastics at any given production cycle. They are limited by space, machines, workers, and raw materials at all times. If they have been running mostly GStar lately (as all indicators with recent releases this seems to be a logical conclusion), then they will likely have been running MUCH fewer Star plastic at that same time. Thus why you're seeing a lot of "backstock" of older star plastic hit the shelves until the next production cycle can be ramped back up and pushed out. It would not suprise me at all if right now they have already switched to producing Star in bulk again now that GStar has hit the shelves in force. Remember what you see in stores in months behind the products coming of the production lines.

It doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with the lack of Star blend at the factory, that is 100% conjecture and likely is not even well educated conjecture. I'm no Innova fanboy, I don't even bag a single mold. I'm just giving you the facts (or more accurately, the lack thereof).

All mass produced goods deal with the same production cycle. Changing any variable on the production line will increase the amount of time to produce the same amount of goods and thus reduce potential profit. Its very common to run the same exact set up for 3-4 months in a factory to build a stock before changing the line around to produce a different product.

Yes what we see in stores is definitely months behind production. However, GStar went into regular production in February, 2014 (per the introductory post on Innova's site). It's been over a year since GStar was introduced so I think they would have adjusted the production by now. Also, it's not just what's in production, it's the fact that none of their new molds are being run in Star at all. Also, they manage to run molds in GStar, Champ, and DX at the same time (and variously in Pro, RPro, XT, etc.), but you're telling me they can't manage to get any production runs of Star going during the last year just because they added a single new plastic type? I think that's pretty much BS.

I will definitely give you that everything I've said about the possible lack of Star blend is complete conjecture. I've said it was a conspiracy theory every time I've brought it up. However, I'm trying to explain to myself Innova's odd behavior. I DON'T think GStar is nearly as popular with most Innova throwers as Star, so I'm trying to understand why Innova keeps introducing new molds in only GStar. Also, the fact that some of us have felt up a lot of newer "Star" that felt a lot like GStar, and the fact that there seems to be a lot of old Star stock going onto shelves lately lends fuel to the fire.

 

[dekdo]

My local shop got a big Innova order (500+) in yesterday. All of the new run star was just a tad stiffer than Gstar. Destroyers and bosses with floppy flight plates and flexy bendy rims. The only firm, frippy stsr I could find was patent numbered leopards, old firebirds, and other clear old inventory molds.

Innova does things that save them money. Blizzard enhanced champion to allow for fewer overweight x outs. Plus molds have take over, and are easier to extract from the mold. Both of these were posted by innova. I think star is on the way out. The high demand for Gstar helps the transition.

Oh man... If the destroyers are changing over to only gstar and champ... People will be upset

 

[ranger]

I need my star terns as well

To people saying that Innova wants to force GStar on the disc buying public, I would ask why? What motive could Innova possibly have for forcing GStar on people unless it had to do with either GStar being cheaper to produce or Star going away?

To those saying that the demand for GStar is way higher than Star, I would say that I kind of doubt it, at least among the hardcore, traditional Innova fans (and there are a lot of those out there). I know that there are lots of normal people who don't know any different and those people will buy GStar or Star or Champ or whatever looks cooler when they're at the store. But among those who are serious disc golfers, I think there are a lot more who love Star than who love GStar.

who knows...

Maybe casual/new players prefer gstar. I could see that demographic being more important to innova.

 

[broomerang]

I can't speak to how the new stuff feels, I haven't picked one up in years. They might be testing a softer blend because the Finnish plastic is so popular right now.

I'll agree that a year is a long time, but I doubt they would forever change their most popular blend among pros and players like us that have been around awhile.

 

[whentherainscome]

So many crazy rumors I've heard:
Innova's phasing out Star.
Innova's going to discontinue GStar because it was a flop.
Innova's going to send their reps to the houses of anyone who's ordered from the factory store and force them to eat ground up rejects of molds that aren't yet using the +mold rim configuration.

One of the top complaints about Star is that it's slick/lacks grip. I disagree, but I wouldn't be surprised if Innova spends the next year or two trying to make Star into a stiffer G* and ending up with a muddy mix of everything in between. I did like the blend they used in the Star Foxbat - clearly G* from the texture and pearly look, but much firmer.

 

[dekdo]

Star always seemed pretty grippy to me, with champ being more slick imo.


Anyways... I just want some star thunderbirds

 

[sandelius]

I talked to Jussi Meresmaa last summer. He said that Innova wants to use Gstar & Champion as their premium plastic. Star is somehow more tricky plastic and it has some properties they don't like that much compared to Gstar.

Can't remember what else he said.

PS. Jussi has no S-line discs in his bag... ;-)

 

[hugheshilton]

I talked to Jussi Meresmaa last summer. He said that Innova wants to use Gstar & Champion as their premium plastic. Star is somehow more tricky plastic and it has some properties they don't like that much compared to Gstar.

Can't remember what else he said.

PS. Jussi has no S-line discs in his bag... ;-)

Thanks for the info! Just a little more confirmation of what we see them doing with the newer molds, although it is anecdotal. Jussi would probably know better than anyone outside Innova themselves. Although, it supports my theory, this also makes me sad since I really like Star.

I think Star is a little slick when brand new, but it beats in very nicely. I think Star is the best compromise between beating in quickly enough to cycle a mold, but not so quickly that its useful lifetime is compromised (like DX where most discs becomes unusably flippy fairly fast). Also, unlike GStar it's nice and stiff. Looks like it's time to stock up on Star Destroyers.

 

[AndyJB]

The best part of Star, for me, is that it beats in to a sweet spot without chunkage. I haven't chunked up any GStar, but I did get a significant gouge in a GStar Teebird that I believe would not have had the same effect were it standard Star. I enjoy Star Teebirds for this reason. I could obviously get a DX Teebird to the spot I desire quicker, but it would be one fugly looking disc, and rather uncomfortable to hold. Also wouldn't last long.

Just from playing tags and casual rounds at my local course I see a lot of Champion Thunderbirds out there. It seems to be really popular. So on one hand, production Star Thunderbirds would likely sell very well. On the other hand, if Champ Thunderbirds are selling like hotcakes, why make any sort of gamble with Star?

 

[ranger]

you don't get chunks in star? I have. I know it's way more durable but it's not like champ.

Star always seemed pretty grippy to me, with champ being more slick imo.


Anyways... I just want some star thunderbirds

usually, but I've had some star discs that feel like they are covered in olive oil

 

[trumbulldore]

Star start out slick, but as they beat in they get great grip also incredibly durable. Played a heavily wooded course and my buddy who torques a FH like no other drilled a tree three times in a row and his firebird had no gouges or debts. Star is my favorite Innova plastic and im not gonna pay Pro shop prices to get a disc that was available on the shelves two months ago.

 

[RJRendleman]

Was down at Innova East this week, Star isn't going anywhere and most of this stock is like the same star everyone is used to.

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

Star plastic has awesome grip, at least the early San Marino blends do. I putt with a Star Aviar P&A and a Sirius Omega AP. If the grip was bad, I would not have trusted these putters for the past 8 years.

Sidenote, G* sucks. My cousin has a G* Aviar and I thought it was a poopy chain-out machine when I gave it a try.

 

[ranger]

Gstar is god awful for putting due to the spit outs but it doesn't suck. It's fantastic for fairway drivers IMO. Every plastic has its downside, like how you wouldn't want to putt with champ.