So yesterday doing some strong tail wind field work, my bud was throwing his Ballistas to 400ft+ effortlessly. So I had him try my 148-160 Terns in the same conditions thinking they were going to bomb...but they actually went typically 50ft shorter. We repeated the test several times to make sure. And no, the Terns were not turning over, rolling, etc. Any insight would be appreciated. Thx.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Strong tail wind test, curious results?
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
slowplastic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 6,254
Were his Ballistas going farther/shorter or the same as when he throws in a calm conditions? Also was he throwing high distance type lines, anny bombs, or line drives?
If it's a medium to heavy tail wind I just lose distance with all of my high speed stuff, my glidey fairways pick up distance, and my putters/mids pick up distance. If it's extremely heavy tailwind then even my fairways get knocked down early.
If it's a medium to heavy tail wind I just lose distance with all of my high speed stuff, my glidey fairways pick up distance, and my putters/mids pick up distance. If it's extremely heavy tailwind then even my fairways get knocked down early.
User error... ? My StarLite 159 Tern with tailwind is almost unbeatable vs any other mold or manufacturer.
dysmike
Double Eagle Member
This all makes sense.. they all 'slow down', and yet.. get pushed.
wake_rider
Birdie Member
For an example of the above idea (slower getting better glide), I have hit 100 yard field goals with an Ultimate Lid in some extreme Oklahoma tailwinds (winds around 20mph with 35ish gusts).
If you give a putter some height and keep the nose angle down while doing it, you can easily see 350' glides. I had a stiff tailwind from the south this last Friday afternoon and put a putter 10' from the basket on a slightly downhill 330' hole. For reference, I normally throw a Roc3 in low to no wind conditions, and I throw a t-bird at 80% or so on this hole with some reasonable headwind, and a XXX low with full power into a stiff headwind (it's a RHBH hyzer finish on a very thin peninsula with deep water on all three sides and about 80' away from the body of land).
It's really surprising how much distance you can get out of a much slower disc with huge tailwinds, so much so that sometimes they get away from you. The good thing is that they don't dump hyzer out or skid/skip too much once they get down.
If you give a putter some height and keep the nose angle down while doing it, you can easily see 350' glides. I had a stiff tailwind from the south this last Friday afternoon and put a putter 10' from the basket on a slightly downhill 330' hole. For reference, I normally throw a Roc3 in low to no wind conditions, and I throw a t-bird at 80% or so on this hole with some reasonable headwind, and a XXX low with full power into a stiff headwind (it's a RHBH hyzer finish on a very thin peninsula with deep water on all three sides and about 80' away from the body of land).
It's really surprising how much distance you can get out of a much slower disc with huge tailwinds, so much so that sometimes they get away from you. The good thing is that they don't dump hyzer out or skid/skip too much once they get down.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,812
My longest throw ever wasn't with a distance driver or fast fairway, but with a River. 25 mph winds with 30 mph gusts, and a 460' open hole. Gave it some hyzer, let it turn over, and off it went...and went...and went...
Ended up pin high, 40' left of the hole. Don't think I would have made it all the way there with a faster disc.
Ended up pin high, 40' left of the hole. Don't think I would have made it all the way there with a faster disc.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
Total guess: ballista has a lower speed at which LSS kicks in? Once a driver hits its LSS range, it fades hard and fast.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
Every tail wind is different. Sometimes you'll instantly gain 50' and everything will bomb. Other times the wind will seem to knock the discs straight down to the ground. I just got done playing in some horrible wind and had some interesting results throwing into it. I threw a Mamba and Shryke with the wind straight at my back. Neither disc did great. They didn't flex and seemed to stall. A Torrent throw with the same wind got pushed into the ground and finished way short.
Here's where things got interesting. On one hole I threw an XCaliber with the wind at my back going slightly right to left. The XCal went high and the wind caught the underside of it big time. It ended up a solid 100' further than where I wanted it.
With tailwinds you need to throw the disc somewhat high so the wind catches the underside of the disc. Without that, they won't glide well.
One other mystifying throw was with a star Destroyer. The wind was blowing hard L-R. I threw it high with some anny. Disc SOARED. I mean, it caught a wind tunnel and went 100' further than usual on a ridiculous anny line and finished way right. It ended up being a poor shot, but a very, very long one.
There are no absolutes when throwing into wind. I also tried a 175 Champion Teebird into a good headwind and it flipped bad. I was surprised at that.
Here's where things got interesting. On one hole I threw an XCaliber with the wind at my back going slightly right to left. The XCal went high and the wind caught the underside of it big time. It ended up a solid 100' further than where I wanted it.
With tailwinds you need to throw the disc somewhat high so the wind catches the underside of the disc. Without that, they won't glide well.
One other mystifying throw was with a star Destroyer. The wind was blowing hard L-R. I threw it high with some anny. Disc SOARED. I mean, it caught a wind tunnel and went 100' further than usual on a ridiculous anny line and finished way right. It ended up being a poor shot, but a very, very long one.
There are no absolutes when throwing into wind. I also tried a 175 Champion Teebird into a good headwind and it flipped bad. I was surprised at that.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
Non-tailwind related insane wind story:
I played a doubles tournament at a couple of the more scenic mountain courses up here in Colorado this last spring: Hi View in Pine, CO.
Threw a very high turnover into a left to right wind that was starting to push into a headwind. First time it worked gloriously, gaining massive uphill distance - rising with the wind current and flexing up the hill giving us the only look for 2 on our card.
Next time I throw the same shot on a similar hole, the disc goes out about 350' flexing up and to the right on anhyzer, and this is when the flight gets weird.
Wind goes into an updraft, carrying the disc straight up in the air... 30', 50', 100' STRAIGHT UP! We're all standing there dumbfounded and I'm thinking I'll never see my Wraith again as we're on the side of a mountain and trees are everywhere.
The disc stalls completely at the top of the updraft and appears to be heading right back towards the tee pad. It's zinging right towards us on a frozen rope like somebody shot it out of a cannon at us! I realize this Wraith is doing full bore right at our group and I start high stepping out of the tee box area at full speed, and the disc augers into the dirt about 15' in front of the tee box.
Not sure I've ever laughed harder during a round, but needless to say - we used my partners drive.
I played a doubles tournament at a couple of the more scenic mountain courses up here in Colorado this last spring: Hi View in Pine, CO.
Threw a very high turnover into a left to right wind that was starting to push into a headwind. First time it worked gloriously, gaining massive uphill distance - rising with the wind current and flexing up the hill giving us the only look for 2 on our card.
Next time I throw the same shot on a similar hole, the disc goes out about 350' flexing up and to the right on anhyzer, and this is when the flight gets weird.
Wind goes into an updraft, carrying the disc straight up in the air... 30', 50', 100' STRAIGHT UP! We're all standing there dumbfounded and I'm thinking I'll never see my Wraith again as we're on the side of a mountain and trees are everywhere.
The disc stalls completely at the top of the updraft and appears to be heading right back towards the tee pad. It's zinging right towards us on a frozen rope like somebody shot it out of a cannon at us! I realize this Wraith is doing full bore right at our group and I start high stepping out of the tee box area at full speed, and the disc augers into the dirt about 15' in front of the tee box.
Not sure I've ever laughed harder during a round, but needless to say - we used my partners drive.
Last edited:
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
Yeah, that stinks. I played today and it was horribly gusty. Even my champ XCal was getting stopped badly. I literally didn't have anything stable enough to hammer through this headwind effectively. It was the kind of wind that made you think much longer and more carefully than usual on the teepad when deciding what disc to throw... and how to throw it.
I throw with this young bomber quite often, in non wind conditions his Ballista would go a bit further, maybe another 30-50ft with the occasional rip going further. The flight path (in this tailwind condition) of his throws (ballista and my terns) were fairly similar, nothing too high, line drive release on a slight hyzer, flip to straight, fade. He does suffer from a tiny bit of nose up issues. I'm guessing that's the reason why the lighter Terns weren't going as far, as they were stalling out sooner.
billyjacko
Eagle Member
Yeah, exposing the top of the disc to wind will knock it to the ground no matter what direction. That's why left to right tail wind (RHBH) is the best wind condition for pure distance. Get a flippy light disc to start turning high in the air, and the wind will push it like a kite for an eternity. I find it harder to throw in a straight tailwind than a straight headwind.
PMantle
* Ace Member *
I struggle so much with tail wind distance. It doesn't make much sense to me, but of all the things I've tried my most consistent results come with a more stable disc than you'd normally use thrown with forced anny. Now, my biggest throws have come from discing down and throwing understable molds, but the results are not as consistent. I really struggle throwing high.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
Best way to think of getting distance in tail winds is "how do you throw the farthest, while throwing with slower ejection speed?"
Let's say your effective speed with reference to the air is only 40-45mph because you have a 20mph tailwind and you throw the disc 65mph.
Any stable to overstable mold thrown 40-45mph is going to be hitting LSS extremely quickly, so you'd need to get the anhyzer angle well over to create some flight path prior to the dump.
Understable discs (ideally with high glide) will behave a little better, as they're likely to take more time to hit LSS, but still typically need to be thrown higher and with a little anhyzer (depending on how understable) - as they're still only flying 40-45mph with reference to the air!
Mid ranges, with a bigger flight plate than a driver and much lower LSS range can be a phenomenal tool in a tailwind. Beat Rocs can often end up as long as a Sidewinder in the right tail wind.
Remember, just because you're throwing a disc higher (to help with less lift generated) - you don't want the nose UP - which will stall the disc sooner!
These ramblings are worth what you paid for them... the wind sucks.
PMantle
* Ace Member *
This happens to me a lot.
Lazerface
Eagle Member
A lot of factors obviously but I bag a couple of Ballistas and don't use them except for weird 400+ woods shots (long hyzerflips) and open shots with strong tailwinds. When I take my bag to a field and am throwing tailwind shots the Ballista consistently out glides all my Destroyers/Wraiths/Teebirds/Eagles and ends up being my longest shot on most tailwind throws. Just my experience.
I have too much arm speed and not enough finesse to get consistent results from a Ballsita for all wind/no wind conditions, but I'm pretty excited to get my hands on a Ballista Pro!
I have too much arm speed and not enough finesse to get consistent results from a Ballsita for all wind/no wind conditions, but I'm pretty excited to get my hands on a Ballista Pro!
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I've tried this too. Sometimes you can just murder a stable disc anny downwind for big distance. Other times, the disc will come out of the anny too fast and just crash land way short. Like I said, all tailwinds are different. Sometimes you'll throw effortless bombs through them. Other times the disc will get knocked down and not glide at all.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
Common sense says that the Ballista should ALWAYS be longer than any of the other discs you listed downwind. Its the fastest and least stable disc you carry.
I agree the Ballista can be touchy in calm conditions. Very, very long disc when you smash it right though.
