Tail Marking - feedback wanted

[cdamon]

"Tail marking" is a proposed change in how minis are used to mark. Instead of placing the
mini in front of the thrown disc, you align the tail of the mini with the tail of the
thrown disc. The result is that you have the same lie regardless of the marking method
chosen. The motivation for the idea is that a single throw has two possible lies. That
seems crazy to me.

The change was approved for the 2013 revision but vetoed by the Board. The Rules Committee
is working on a 2017 revision, and will again address the tail marking proposal. It is
very likely to be approved by the committee.

A summary of the case for it can be found at:

http://conraddamon.com/pdga/tail-marking.html

I'm curious to see what a wider audience of disc golfers thinks. Give it a try during
your next round. There's a decent chance that you'll end up using a mini only when
required (OB, lie above ground, etc). My opinion is that play flows better, as you end
up playing point-to-point by omitting the extra steps of marking with a mini (get the
mini out, bend down, put it in front of the disc, pick up the disc, put it in your bag).

What do you think?

 

[MarkDSM]

why not very simply "marker placed to edge of thrown disc" ? Eliminate nose, tail, line of play thoughts and possible infraction with placement of marker.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

I only use a mini when I absolutely have to. They're annoying.

 

[krupicka]

One question I have is how would the rule be worded? There is a simplicity to marking the front edge of the disc and then removing the thrown disc where only one is being moved at a time. Would you place the mini on the thrown disc and then slide it out (while holding the mini in place so it doesn't move?).

The current mechanism only requires one hand to perform the actions of placing a mini. Would the new mechanism now require two? For some (I'm thinking of at least one local golfer) where that would be difficult.

 

[Karl]

The result is that you have the same lie regardless of the marking method
chosen. What do you think?

Conrad,
I agree that '...the lie (point) would be the same...' but then using a mini would LOSE you the diameter of the mini - instead of gaining you some ground (as using a mini now does), no? Somewhat of a wash....

Karl
Ps: since day 1, never liked the mini...wish we could find a way to get rid of it.

 

[bradharris]

I rarely use a mini. I see this only being an issue for those mid range putts where every inch helps.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

I also agree with kiprucka and the op. It seems like it is doing both making the need to use a mini less needed and more of a pain in the ass when it is needed... Just leave it.

Ps: since day 1, never liked the mini...wish we could find a way to get rid of it.

Could do the ol disc flip maneuver instead.

 

[coupe]

I agree that '...the lie (point) would be the same...' but then using a mini would LOSE you the diameter of the mini - instead of gaining you some ground (as using a mini now does), no?

No:

Instead of placing the
mini in front of the thrown disc, you align the tail of the mini with the tail of the
thrown disc.

In effect, you stand the thrown disc vertically on the edge farthest from the target and place the mini touching the edge of the edge of the thrown disc closest to the target.

 

[Karl]

Ah, thank you coupe. Obviously I'm not reading well today....

 

[Pbmercil]

I honestly don't care. The current rule works fine, I can totally see the logic of the revision. I kinda like the idea that there should only be 1 possible lie regardless of if you Mark or not. But I don't think its a big deal either way

 

[Cgkdisc]

Consider requiring tail marking but with a full sized disc, no minis any more, AND
Make the Line of Play the width of the disc to make both hitting your mark and seeing foot faults a bit easier.

 

[loki the trickster]

First... why is this needed? I am being serious! Why is this new rule needed... what hole in the rules does this fix!?!?


Second... how would this marking style make the round faster? The lie is going to be marked one way or another. It would be like saying you can on a flat football field run faster from home- away then away-home.

Third... saying that your only putting if your in the circle is a joke! If thats how you feel then maybe the circle needs to be increased from 10m to 15m. Considering a minimum of the 50 professionals can putt from roughly 45-50ft. And if i remember correctly stick golfers if on the fringe have the choice to chip and or putt.

Fourth... your number 5 for the change; confusion for non discgolfers. Why should we change rules for non discgolfers? You have to learn the rules for any activity football, basketball, footgolf, ballgolf, chess, Texas Hold'em and so on.

The way a disc is marked is too far along and a change would cause frustration among the golfers that i know.

If the committee wants to make things easier on all disc folk or modify rules that have issues look at the 2m rule. As it should be 100% in effect or completely killed.

 

[Timeetyo]

Meh.

In the end it isn't a big deal either way but I just don't see the point of the change.

 

[Pbmercil]

First... why is this needed? I am being serious! Why is this new rule needed... what hole in the rules does this fix!?!?

The fact that as currently written their are two possible lies for every throw, and which lie is the real one is dependant on if the player chooses to mark or not. Even if you don't think that is a problem (i dont care either way) you have to admit that it is counter intuitive and wierd.

 

[mark996]

Dear PDGA, stop ****ing stuff up and worrying about things like this.

Thanks

 

[Pbmercil]

Third... saying that your only putting if your in the circle is a joke! If thats how you feel then maybe the circle needs to be increased from 10m to 15m. Considering a minimum of the 50 professionals can putt from roughly 45-50ft.

The link in the OP is specifically talking about if you are putting as difined by the rules, not putting in a general sense.

 

[curt]

I don't think the fact that there are two potential lies for any shot in disc golf is a big problem. In practice, the difference is negligible in the execution and outcome of a shot in disc golf. It may seem strange if you compare it to other sports, but it doesn't present a problem in disc golf. There are plenty of things that don't make sense from an outsider's view in other sports. Consider drops in golf or playing clean and place. Or, why doesn't every batter in baseball stand in the exact same place? That doesn't seem fair to the pitcher.

As far as point 3.m I think the thrown disc makes a worse marker for fairway drives. A larger target makes it more difficult to tell if someone hit the line of play or not (especially if you set standards for mini size that made them the size of the pole).

I also think this method of marking is overly cumbersome, and will lead to inaccurate marking. There's s far better, cleaner solution to the problem, imo. Simply change the rules to read that the lie is a line extending 60cm from the front of the thrown disc. A player may mark the lie with a mini disc, and the lie is now the rear of the marker. This would give the player the option to mark and use the thrown disc, but on,y have one lie.

 

[DanJon]

Consider requiring tail marking but with a full sized disc, no minis any more, AND
Make the Line of Play the width of the disc to make both hitting your mark and seeing foot faults a bit easier.

I'm sorry but this makes too much sense.

 

[BrotherDave]

I voted no change. The biggest reason why is b/c I don't think the 2 lies thing is a big deal. I think it's actually a good thing. The reason why is b/c a lot of disc golf is played in the woods where footing is often tenuous, not a well manicured ball golf course. A player can make a terrific throw and land well within putting distance, let alone the fairway, and have janky footing through no fault of the player due to a random root/gopher hole/tree/prickly bush/etc. The ability to put the mini down currently can help the player reduce some of this random punishment by giving him/her some precious foot room. Sure, you get 30 cm but sometimes that 30 cm is eaten up by a boulder, stump, decaying animal, etc. That's just the nature of our game.

I would actually be more inclined with allowing you to mark your lie by placing the mini along any edge. If a guy is going to cheat a little to one side and risk foot faulting, why not give him an inch or two to help avoid a sketchy stance?

 

[Pbmercil]

I don't think the fact that there are two potential lies for any shot in disc golf is a big problem. In practice, the difference is negligible in the execution and outcome of a shot in disc golf.

I don't think this is true at all. If you are not checking to make sure using a mini isn't giving you a worse lie before you put the mini down your doing it wrong. I would hazard a guess that at least twice per tournament round I intentionally choose not to mark with a mini because the lie with the thrown disc is better, even though I generally prefer to use a mini