[Vs.] The Immortal Molds

[BrotherDave]

Alright fine.

"Benchmark" molds: Aviar, Roc, Teebird, Eagle, Firebird, Leopard, Destroyer, Zone, Buzzz, Comet, Wizard, Wraith, Valkyrie, Beast, Justice, Rhyno.

"Really Big Deals" molds: Nuke, Boss, TL, Orion LF, PD, Ion, Envy, VP, River, Pure, Magic, Judge, Sidewinder, Berg, Drone, Polecat, Squall, Stingray, Blowfly, Fuse, Force, Predator, Stego, Surge, Volt.

Still the GOAT stamp:

 

[pjhayes7]

Classic Putters:
Aviar
Wizard
Weird shallow putter for people who don't like putters:
Judge
Not-a-putter-not-a-mid:
Zone
Harp
Good Mids:
Roc
Comet
Mids for people who don't like to throw mids like mids:
Buzzz
Fuse
Control drivers:
TeeBird
Eagle
Leopard
Drivers:
Valkyrie
Firebird
Wraith
Destroyer
Thing that's too fast for anybody but everybody throws:
Boss

I prolly should have had the Envy on there as well.

I would add Magic, Volt, and FD.

 

[txmxer]

So...I don't think you can find objective universal truth with this exercise.
Because....there are no best discs. Only best discs for each individual, for myriad reasons.

However, this is only my opinion, and I don't want to $hit in anyone's Wheaties, so I'll bow out of the discussion and you may carry on.

100% agree. I'm still a novice, but the more different discs I throw the more I feel it's all unique.

Although the Aviar is a game changer (supposedly), a putter is probably the one of the first disc I would do without if I were building a minimalist bag.

I haven't posted in the 3 or 5 disc bag threads because everyone seems to know plastics and molds so much better than I do.

Regardless, everyone throws different and so different discs work better for different people.

 

[hawgdriver]

100% agree. I'm still a novice, but the more different discs I throw the more I feel it's all unique.
...

Regardless, everyone throws different and so different discs work better for different people.

Ah. I totally missed this aspect of it--the "no such thing as one-size-fits-all" in disc golf. Hands, throwing styles, technique, strength, etc., all this creates too much variability among everyone.

Strong point, makes this kind of statistical thing way less useful.

Otoh, many if not all of the discs that seem to be universally lauded, when I try them, I kinda 'get it', and a lot of other people 'get it', which is why they are popular.

 

[SaROCaM]

Although the Aviar is a game changer (supposedly), a putter is probably the one of the first disc I would do without if I were building a minimalist bag.

Opposite for me. It all starts with the putter; something that can be used off the tee as well as on the green and in between. Some kind of Aviar or P2 for me.

 

[Moonshine]

Classic Putters:
Aviar
Wizard
Weird shallow putter for people who don't like putters:
Judge
Not-a-putter-not-a-mid:
Zone
Harp
Good Mids:
Roc
Comet
Mids for people who don't like to throw mids like mids:
Buzzz
Fuse
Control drivers:
TeeBird
Eagle
Leopard
Drivers:
Valkyrie
Firebird
Wraith
Destroyer
Thing that's too fast for anybody but everybody throws:
Boss

I mostly agree with this list, and the bulk of what I carry can be found within it. Just curious, what are your thoughts on the Wasp? I feel like it falls into the "Mids for people who don't like mids" category because of it's low profile and relative speed. Also, perhaps it's not "Immortal" because of its relation to the Roc.

Supreme Leader Three Putt, please pontificate on the Wasp for us!

 

[Three Putt]

Supreme Leader Three Putt, please pontificate on the Wasp for us!

There are a lot of people who are more qualified Wasp throwers on this board than I am.

I do remember the first time I picked up a Wasp, oddly. I remember thinking it was like a Roc had a baby with a bullet; it just felt fast sitting in my hand. I bought it and threw it. It was fast. It also didn't go anywhere for me. I was kinda perplexed and kept messing with it for a few weeks, then gave up on it. It was user error for sure, but it was never a serious contender to kick Rocs out of my bag.

It also never really stuck in the market. Doss didn't throw it, which was kinda glaring at the time. The Buzzz became the ubiquitous Advanced Amateur midrange of the '00's. Discraft ran the Buzzz in every plastic they make and made OS and SS versions of it, but the Wasp was only run in Z after a while. It's just sorta there. The biggest impact it made was being the basis for the Buzzz.

Basically I didn't put it on my list since the Buzzz was already there. I thought a lot more about putting the Meteor on the list than the Wasp, honestly.

I didn't put the Meteor on the list as it's slipped off the radar in recent years. 8 years ago it would have been on my list.

I posted this in June of 2008:

Disc golf is still very regional, so what discs are big changes from place to place. Most of the discs with a really big following are made by Innova as they have the biggest distribution by far.

Here would be my "Hall of Fame" for golf discs.

Innova Aviar: Easily the best-selling disc of all time.
Gateway Wizard: The longest putter on the market. Sales of this one disc keep Gateway afloat.
Millennium Omega Supersoft:Original "putter" plastic wasn't really all that soft, but the Omega Supersoft set the standard for the floppy, sticky putter plastic that is so popular today.
Innova Roc: See above.
Discraft Buzzz: Finally, a mid-range from Discraft that flies like a Roc. It will hold any line you put on it.
Innova Stingray: Anybody else remember when the Stingray was the Max-D disc on the market? It has evolved from distance driver to turnover mid over the years, but it has remained a useful disc in many players bags over the years.
Innova Viper: People forget that this was the best-selling driver of the 90's. It was the pinnacle of "large diameter" drivers. Big, slow and overtable, it has been replaced by faster, small diameter discs.
Discraft Cyclone: Revolutionary when it was released, it is a fast (well, it was fast at the time) driver that you can shape a variety of lines with. Pros and recreational players could all use this disc for distance drives. Discraft is often accused of "copying" Innova discs, but Innova copied the Cyclone when it released the Gazelle a year later. The Cyclone is still a great fairway driver today.
Millennium Polaris LS: This disc pushed all the technical specs at the time of it's release, and it was released in the upgraded "Millennium" plastic. It proved that disc golfers would pay more for better plastic and started the march toward premium plastics.
Gateway Sabre: Gateway's first disc was a winner. You have to throw it hard to get good results, but it is a super-predictable flyer.
Innova TeeBird: If any other disc has a Roc-like following, it is the TeeBird. It flies long and straight with a predictable fade...It is often called a "longer Roc." Despite all the hype over high-speed drivers, top throwers still use the TeeBird in distance competitions.
Innova Valkyrie: The disc that started the rim wars. After the Valk, every year somebody had a new disc with a bigger rim that supposedly flies faster, farther, better, makes you coffee, etc. Tech standards have put a cap on that, so we will see what the next innovation in discs design will be.
Innova Firebird or Discraft Predator: Everybody loves an overstable pig. These two are the class of that field.

There are a lot of newer discs out there...Wraith, Surge, Destroyer, yada, yada, yada. I'll let the test of time work it out before I put them on this list. One new disc that will be on the list is the
Quest Turbo-Putt: For years, Innova's patent on golf discs allowed them to de facto control the evolution of the golf disc. Discs like the 10M Brick and Turbo Putt signaled a new era in golf disc design and forced the PDGA to tighten the definition of what is a golf disc. Because of that it will impact what we are throwing long after it disappears from the scene.

There is some overlap, some discs on my 2021 list that were not around in 2008, and some cringey "I should edit that post" stuff there. It's a moving target; I'm sure my opinion will change by...eh, I thought I should have put the Envy on my list like an hour after I typed it. :\

 

[wims]

Aviar, Roc, Teebird and Firebird. The true immortal molds

Sent from my M2004J19C using Tapatalk

 

[mavsfan]

Cyclone (still bag it, but for a completely different use)
JLS
Envy
Aviar
Destroyer

 

[hawgdriver]

'lil bump to keep this fresh...

here's what I'm thinking...

end of August, I look at what's in here and come up with a list of about 10-25 molds. I haven't actually parsed these replies yet, so I'm not sure the exact number.

Then I'll make a google form.

It will ask 'hey, have you thrown a [e.g.] Aviar?' 'how much? (paraphrased)' and so on for each disc. Then it will ask some background questions 'how many rounds of disc golf have you played in your life, approx?' 'what's your highest ever pdga rating?' for slight weighting purposes.

A black box will happen.

Then results.

I'll post the black box--won't be black box at all, I'm into crystal clear easy to understand stuff. But to avoid 2d guessing. Just saying I am going to prioritize *credibility* of results above all. So if you haven't thrown the Aviar (e.g.) a ton, it shouldn't matter as much what you think about the Aviar.

 

[hawgdriver]

and there's no "right answer" this is just to learn something maybe, help us with our game, and help us noobs

 

[Three Putt]

Cyclone (still bag it, but for a completely different use)
JLS
Envy
Aviar
Destroyer

I still throw Cyclones.

Cyclones, Vipers and Cheetahs ruled the late 90's. XL's were huge for a hot minute. The fairway drivers that won that war were Leopards, Eagles and TeeBirds, though.

 

[Three Putt]

and there's no "right answer" this is just to learn something maybe, help us with our game, and help us noobs

It's always just opinions.

I know that back when I started I rolled a lot. The discs were shorter so when you were out and around almost nobody could throw 400'. The discs were larger in diameter with smaller wings so they didn't flick great, we threw beat-up discs on anhyzer lines all the time. Dialing in that turnover roller was just the next step, and it generally was the only way you saw somebody park a 350' shot. So discs like Stingrays and Cobras that rolled well were really important to us.

People just don't throw rollers all the time like they used to. They can flick so they don't need to learn the backhand turnover as much. People throw farther so the roller isn't the play on the longer holes anymore. People just don't depend on a roller disc anymore.

You COULD decide to throw for X-number of months and not throw flicks or high-speed drivers and force yourself to learn a backhand turnover roller, but so far as the game is played today I'm not sure how much you will really gain from that. Other than it's rare enough now that it kinda freaks people out when you do it well.

 

[BuzzzChief]

My list is basically the same as Three Putt's. Firebird and Wizard for life, obviously.

Wizard is pretty much the only Aviar copy/variant that stands alone. Somehow it's just different enough to be its own thing. James Conrad cemented the Envy into the disc golf hall of fame, I see them everywhere now and doubt they'll go away.

I throw Roc and Destroyer clones so it's the same thing, they belong on the list. Everyone has a Zone or a similar knockoff nowadays. I may consider adding the Comet to my signature.

I think it's worth lobbying for either the PD or the Thunderbird. That kind of stable (or slightly overstable) speed 9-10 driver has become pretty ubiquitous over the last 5 years. OLF was already there, but I think that slot really started to pick up steam with the PD, and then exploded with the Thunderbird.

I also feel like it's sort of lame that fairways would all be Innova molds, but I truly can't think of anything more iconic and lasting than Leopard/Eagle/Teebird. I don't even throw any of them consistently anymore, and tons of brands have great options, but they're the gold standard.

 

[Will Burke]

This is such a great thread an I'll tell you why. I've been on Hiatus for a few years but went to leagues today. Asked about a disc an they said it's pretty much a wraith. Asked about a disc and said it's like a ce tee bird. I said you mean a tl he said no ce tee bird. Also same with a buzz. Anyway I find it interesting molds aren't changing just companies and plastic. The berg was weird though.

It was a hex I think about the buzz.