The "Incomplete" Secret Technique

[TheLastBoyScout]

Navels are relative. If you've got a really long torso this might throw you off.
I would recommend just trying to get the pull lower and lower til you stop seeing a benefit. If you make it too your navel, yay! if not you will still benefit from a lower pull.

Just be sure to stretch. I ended up pulling my groin this morning. It felt so good, i pulled it again.

[sent from my motorola droid]

 

[DsmDisc]

So I took a smoke break at work today and had some cyclones sitting in my car. I decided I would do some of these drills again, since I had a hard time with it last time I tried. I absolotely felt it this time! I let go of all my previous knowledge like some have suggested and just played around with arm positions and timing and whatnot, and BAM! Doing the backhand pound the hammer is finally brining everything wrong about my throw into light. My positioning sucks too, but now that I know what a throw is supposed to feel like I can just rebuild my form around this.

Feeling that disc shift and pivot at the end of my throw suddenly makes sense. I can't get it to happen if I just rip it at full speed, but if I slow myself down and accelerate a bit at the end, my wrist opens up and I can feel the disc pivoting out! I'm going on a mini-road trip for disc golf tomorrow to Newton and Iowa City, so I'll have ample opporunity to try this out, but I think this is going to help me take huge strides in my accuracy and distance.

I also understand how I was strong arming the disc. Thinking of strongarming as a push instead of a pull makes a lot of sense in my head. I would say it was more of a 'pushing with my arm' than 'pulling with my body.' I can't wait to see how this translates to real throws!

 

[rusch_bag]

I do the drills as I sit at work bored and I am still having a weird issue. I feel the weight of the disc and I get recoil and whatnot, but after I do the motion 3-6 times my thumb will make a weird popping noise which also hurts and when the pop happens the disc almost always flies out due to pain. Am I doing something wrong or is my thumb just messed up? Also, I really haven't had time to try this stuff out on the course yet so I can't give you anymore info than what I have.

 

[zj10021]

That's interesting to know about the pull line. I can rip 425 with a flat pull(min reach back) that is above my pec line. I think Blake sorta told me once when he looked at my video that I wasn't creating much leverage on the disc(my shoulders stayed flat). I'll test this out on Sunday and see if I see some changes.

 

[Iman522]

Ok so I have been doing these drills for the past little while and here are some of my questions and shortcomings I have questions about.

1. First when I was doing the backhand hammer I couldn't really figure it out because I didn't get much power but just recently I realized that my elbow was staying close to my side and my arm never really straightened. Here lately I got so much more power when I let my elbow go out farther and my arm swing more out. Is this correct?

2. I have been getting loads of hardcore nose up. Previously before these drills I had been getting some nose down (at least I think so anyways.) Is this something that others have experienced or do yall think I have a bad grip or am I just having problems with keeping my wrist down. (maybe I need to go practice bradley's pred drill awhile using the whole hammer deal)

I think this is all the questions I have right now but my driving has definitely gone way down hill since I started practicing with these drills. The one super awesome plus that has happened so far is my ability to hit lines. It just works almost perfect in hitting the exact line I am looking for and it is super consistent. (The only problem is its not going far enough to matter to awful much though!)

 

[JR]

Ok so I have been doing these drills for the past little while and here are some of my questions and shortcomings I have questions about.

1. First when I was doing the backhand hammer I couldn't really figure it out because I didn't get much power but just recently I realized that my elbow was staying close to my side and my arm never really straightened. Here lately I got so much more power when I let my elbow go out farther and my arm swing more out. Is this correct?

2. I have been getting loads of hardcore nose up. Previously before these drills I had been getting some nose down (at least I think so anyways.) Is this something that others have experienced or do yall think I have a bad grip or am I just having problems with keeping my wrist down. (maybe I need to go practice bradley's pred drill awhile using the whole hammer deal)

I think this is all the questions I have right now but my driving has definitely gone way down hill since I started practicing with these drills. The one super awesome plus that has happened so far is my ability to hit lines. It just works almost perfect in hitting the exact line I am looking for and it is super consistent. (The only problem is its not going far enough to matter to awful much though!)

1: YES!!!! Congratulations.

2: Is your wrist breaking high? Can you keep the hand tilted down from the wrist so that the disc is in line but on a lower plane compared to the bones between the wrist and the elbow?

It is very difficult to combine a loose slow at first fast in the end arm pull with the timing and motions needed for the wrist portion of the snap. A lot of speed and strength is needed of the smaller muscles in the lower forearm and the wrist area to maintain proper angles. And it's even more difficult when one tries to get the correct amount of tension in those areas late enough (timing is a biaatch) and finding what the best tension is until the arm motion starts to change direction and the wrist starts to fly open. And then you need to actively whip the wrist even faster right.

So it's slow with the arm until the right pec or later then accelerating the upper arm then the elbow chop then tensing up the wrist (how to find the best tension? I don't know so just experiment with different tensions from wrist locked to loose the same for timing) and once the wrist starts to move from curled left (if it has curled) lever hard with all the muscles you can consciously guide to make the wrist fly right of the neutral position and then a steely stop with the wrist to exaggerate the disc pivot into a hyper spin. And a hard pinch with the index finger and the thumb against each other so that the disc leaves those fingers from say 5 o'clock on the disc. Easy peasy.

It's no wonder this is so hard to get right that only a few manage it. It also shakes the muscles and tendons a lot and doing this without warming up and stretching can hurt you seriously. If you've got previous injuries like I do it is very dangerous if overdone or not being fully warmed up and stretched to full limberness. -Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition :-D

 

[emiller3]

I am still half hitting it well, 400' with Eagles and further with Destroyers. It is becoming easier to do and I'm no longer having to do towel practice every day to keep the feel of it. My distance seems like it's here to stay. Not sure if I'm going to go for full hit, probably won't, maybe it will just happen some day.

I haven't really worked on accuracy yet, it's easier to half hit it with a full reach back than with my 80% accuracy throw, so I'm pretty much using my body for positioning at this point. What should I focus on to increase my accuracy or get some of the "easy" accuracy that people seem to have gotten with this method?

And by the way, I too had found the low pull to be one of the keys to getting leverage when I started working on this. I lose a lot of distance when I pull higher, but I'm working on that.

 

[JHern]

I get the nose down going into very last part of the rip...I have no idea if it is down before then, but I do know it is afterward. The motion of opening your wrist and slinging the disc forward around your lock finger on the inside rim creates the opportunity you need to get a flat and level release.

Experiment with the way you apply the final grip pressure just before the rip, and you'll find something that gets that nose down for you.

 

[cfair]

lowering your pull line creates natural leverage. which is needed.

Even though we are seeking out "the hit" little stuff like this sometimes fills in a gap to make it happen. Last week I was throwing my putter 250ish. I took the weekend off, read this today and gave it a try. I can throw my ridge as far as I use to throw my drivers before discing down (roughly 310). Now I can put a putter out there. Thank you dan for you're little nuggets from time to time. I'll probably be looking over a few people's threads to look for little bits like this. Its why you are The Master Beto.

 

[x-out1]

i've been relentlessly working the drills and almost stopped shooting rounds.

i mixed in mids and putters in my last practice session.

New Problem- i'm getting consistent 300 or 315 feet with putters (not the problem ), but mids are about 325ft or less. more so with mids and a little with drivers, i don't feel as if i'm getting enough velocity on them. it doesn't feel like the energy from my throw is being put into the rim of the disc efficiently.

Any tips?
BTW the nose is down on all discs.

 

[JR]

Are you pinching the discs right before the rip or could you be getting small slips that still have the disc going in the same direction? Are you using tall putters and thinner mids? A taller putter won't slip out as fast because there is more rim height to stay in touch with the fingers than with most mids.

 

[x-out1]

Are you pinching the discs right before the rip or could you be getting small slips that still have the disc going in the same direction? Are you using tall putters and thinner mids? A taller putter won't slip out as fast because there is more rim height to stay in touch with the fingers than with most mids.

i'm trying not to grip the disc tightly at all. Blake recommended that i loosen my grip as he thought i was gripping too tight too soon. I believe this was to correct my rip point, because before it was my middle finger and is now to my index finger.

Putters: p2 and p&a
Mids: Roc+ and Roc (rancho)

Should i start trying to pinch before the hit?

BTW- this is the most exciting thread ever. the thoughts of gaining more D is intoxicating. now i'm wondering how much further i can throw with a few more tweaks.

 

[JR]

You should pinching at the latter stages of the hit. The advice Blake gave is right until you need to pinch to avoid the disc slipping although in the right direction. The goal is to get the disc flying in the correct direction and pivoting in the thumb lock. The correct timing can be found with a high speed camera or with the feel of not getting a disc pivot and moving the pinch earlier to get the disc to pivot. Less than full power was easier for me to get the disc to pivot. And feeling it.

 

[discraft]

Click,Click,BOOM! I had my breakthrough today in the soccer field.The goals and lines were gone for the winter so I don't know the distance.My X-Avenger cleared the field into the bank behind it. I at least half-hit it today.FINALLY!!!!
Slight hyzer then the spin kicked in to flip up and get a full flight.It really took very little effort.These drills work!
I focused on nose down wrist position,very slow x-step,loose grip and arm into right pec,then acceleration (pound the hammer).The ah-ha moment :idea: came from allowing the disc to pivot (instead of just holding on until it slipped out).When it started to pivot I gripped hard between pointer finger and thumb( instead of my entire grip ).


Thanks to all for posting their thoughts (I read everything).

 

[JHern]

I think I've discovered a trick to get the disc pivot feeling in the first drill...

...I've been able to get a very strong feeling for the disc pivot in the first drill (the one where the arm and disc fall downward) while messing around today with a Teebird while talking on the phone. It surprised me, but I knew it when I felt it. The key was in the way that I was holding the disc: my index finger tip and middle finger tips are pressed against the inside of the rim, and my finger nails are on the bottom of the flight plate. My thumb lightly presses on the top of the flight plate (but close to the rim), but this is very loosely held and only serves to keep the disc from falling off my index and middle fingers. This loose grip enhances the pivot, and makes it really easy to get the feel for it. And very easy on your fingers, too. The timing is everything. You have to find out when exactly to apply downward force, and how much. I think I'm applying a little force about halfway through the fall, and then everything seems to fall into place. When I look back at Blake's videos, I recognize the timing and how this all fits.

Next I'm going to work on the fake grip again, since I think this is still critical for getting the feel for timing the pinch correctly, in addition to feeling the pivot. Note that I've felt this pivot before when driving backhand, while pressing in against the rim with the same fingers in a similar manner. I just need to get this feeling going when I'm also gripping the disc like crazy.

And then I need to feel the pivot with a proper sidearm orientation, and do some field practice. Man, I'd love to get my forehand throw back in shape again!

 

[cfair]

At first I thought Dave Dunapiece's videos were dumb but after this one it makes me think a lot of top pros just know some stuff they're just not telling anyone else. Dave's Tip On Grip But anyway as I've pounded the hammer I've found that the thumb does seem to be my aiming point, but I've also noticed how when we talk about the active opening of the wrist we talk about that recoil we get like when a hammer hits a board, but learning to apply that backhand. I'm going to add in a little of dave's tips here to what I've been doing and see how that works out for me.

The reason being I've focused so much on my wrist and a lot on my primary fingers grip that I just put my thumb over the rim line and pressed down. I'll see if this yields any results. I am though currently focused on putter driving.

 

[x-out1]

i'm still having trouble with the disc slipping early. i believe the disc is slipping before i'm getting to pound the hammer. the pad on my middle finger is taking the brunt of the slip, and i can feel the disc rotate around it as the disc leaves my hands.

i'm not translating the hammer pound from the drills into the throw.

are there any tips out there that might help me with my "pinch"? any other input would be valued as well.

 

[Blake_T1]

if you can't hold on you need to change your timing/mechanics until you can.

it's that simple.

if you can't hold onto it more than likely you are entering the power zone with too much speed and then the time you need to hold onto it the most it simply pulls itself out via inertia.

go in relaxed, finish hard, fast, and strong.

 

[x-out1]

thanks for the input. i will try to mix up the timing of my acceleration.

i think going in relaxed is going to be the hardest habit to break. my older form has it all backwards (go in hard and slow down at the hit). back to practicing all over again.

again can't wait to see the results from "hitting it". my discs are already behaving differently than ever before, even when i was able to hit 450. now most of the discs i practice with have a flight pattern similar to that of max distance competitions. they hit a big flip to turn and hold that turn for most of the flight. adding in the hammer pound will have to add even more exit speed translating to an exaggerated flight pattern. can't wait!

thanks again

 

[Bradley Walker]

I need to make a new video... Too much to type...