yeah man, when I learned to approach and drive with a putter, which I couldn't figure out for years, things just became simplified. Instead of having to play the fade on a mid or driver, I can just aim directly at the basket with putter and that's where it goes
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Throwing under 350'?
- Thread starter Technohic
- Start date
yeah man, when I learned to approach and drive with a putter, which I couldn't figure out for years, things just became simplified. Instead of having to play the fade on a mid or driver, I can just aim directly at the basket with putter and that's where it goes
Lewis
* Ace Member *
The value of driving goes way up on longer courses. Take a guy who can't throw over 250' and put him on a course with 350'+ holes. I predict he's not going to have many birdies, no matter how good a putter he is. There aren't many courses around that don't have some holes shorter than that, but unless you're one of the noodle arms you really don't understand their plight. Putting is great, but you first have to get within putting range.
garublador
* Ace Member *
And who do you think will have an better shot at an easy putt on a 250' hole, someone who's throwing a distance driver as hard as they can or someone who's easily tossing a putter?
toothyfish
* Ace Member *
The distance thrower only has an advantage if the control is there to go with it. Driving 350 on a 350 ft hole with control is a birdie opportunity. Pulling it wide leaves a longer putt, that will probably miss. Driving 250 with control leaves a nice approach shot, with a short putt for par.
Driving 350 on a 400 ft hole still leaves a 50ft putt (at best) Driving 250 ft leaves a 150 ft approach, which should land close.
Now on a 700 ft hole it's two drives vs two and and a long approach, but, again, if the second drive is outside the circle, there isn't much advantage. It's still 4 to get in.
Trust me, I've been beaten by shorter throwers with better course management and putting skills...I've learned to play more in control, even if that means loosing some distance. Gettin my disc in a good spot to make my next shot, is better than a long, long drive that lands off the fairway.
Driving 350 on a 400 ft hole still leaves a 50ft putt (at best) Driving 250 ft leaves a 150 ft approach, which should land close.
Now on a 700 ft hole it's two drives vs two and and a long approach, but, again, if the second drive is outside the circle, there isn't much advantage. It's still 4 to get in.
Trust me, I've been beaten by shorter throwers with better course management and putting skills...I've learned to play more in control, even if that means loosing some distance. Gettin my disc in a good spot to make my next shot, is better than a long, long drive that lands off the fairway.
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
Depends on what discrepencies you are talking about. Yes you still need control, but just because someone throws longer doesnt mean they "cant" control the disc.
Yes, i will say I beleive control is most important but that doesnt make distance unimportant.
Yes, i will say I beleive control is most important but that doesnt make distance unimportant.
toothyfish
* Ace Member *
Not implying distance is unimportant. But I've found only a couple holes where my maximum controlled distance (325, Teebird or Eagle) is exactly where the basket is. If there is a hole at 325, I'm grabbing my Champ Teebird with a really good shot at parking it. But at 350, it's a Valk, which may get close, leave me a 40 ft putt (very low percentage) or risk being off the fairway (work hard to save par, possible bogey). At 400, I'd rather be in the fairway to make a nice approach, rather than stretch another 30 ft...unless it's an open hole.
I've gained 50 ft in distance since I've started playing: I've taken maybe one or two strokes off my game because of it. How many 30 ft putts have I missed? Making just half of them would take 4 strokes off my game, easy.
In theory a shorter thrower does have a disadvantage at a longer course, and if the longer thrower can control his big d drivers (which I think is not as easy with the new wide rimmed fast molds) and putt then there would be a bigger disadvantage, but I'm still sticking with my original statement that control is way more important than big distance regardless of the course, and in terms of what are the most important parts of games it goes putting>approaching>driving for distance.
I wish I could find the thread that was discussing this topic, someone broke down tournament hole lengths and found that if you can throw 250 to your intended landing zone (the one that gives you the best look for your second shot) then make your accurate approach and sink every putt 20' putt you'd be shooting close to 1000 rated rounds every time. Now that's solely theoretical and doesn't take into account the multitude of complexities in course design and player flaws, so it's obviously flawed, but still intriguing.
I wish I could find the thread that was discussing this topic, someone broke down tournament hole lengths and found that if you can throw 250 to your intended landing zone (the one that gives you the best look for your second shot) then make your accurate approach and sink every putt 20' putt you'd be shooting close to 1000 rated rounds every time. Now that's solely theoretical and doesn't take into account the multitude of complexities in course design and player flaws, so it's obviously flawed, but still intriguing.
IMO, even though the new fast drivers on the market are intended to be used by blue level players and up, a lot of shorter arm and newer players are "clubbing up" so to speak, and it's not really helping their fundamentals out. Funny story I saw this chunky little nine year old kid at a course in WI ask his buddies if he should throw the boss or the surge. I had to laugh and thought 'Who the hell is putting these discs in this kids hands?' He then proceeded to throw the boss 50 ft. I think that if you don't have 350-400' arm speed and technique, you probably should choose a slower driver
toothyfish
* Ace Member *
I think of it this way: would your rather be able to throw 50 ft further with control or sink every putt in the circle?
Granted, the distance would put you that much closer to the basket, but how many birdie opportunities would it create? It would shorten approaches on longer holes, as well increasing the odds of a better score. But I look at all the putts I've missed and know that I could drop 5-6 strokes if I was perfect inside the circle.
Granted, the distance would put you that much closer to the basket, but how many birdie opportunities would it create? It would shorten approaches on longer holes, as well increasing the odds of a better score. But I look at all the putts I've missed and know that I could drop 5-6 strokes if I was perfect inside the circle.
toothyfish
* Ace Member *
As do I...
I've been trying so many different things to get past 300 my drive is in disarray. It's like the guy with the old TR6 that's in pieces all over the garage, 'cept in my case it's a '62 Beetle. 
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
I've been trying so many different things to get past 300 my drive is in disarray. It's like the guy with the old TR6 that's in pieces all over the garage, 'cept in my case it's a '62 Beetle.
I undersstand that. Why its good to just go back to basics every once in a while. In working on my form so much, I have gotten to where I dont know whats going on anymore lol
rcmalamutes
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
- Messages
- 14
Isnt this the evolution of every disc golfer...
in the beginning, the problem is "the disc".... they go out and buy and try everything. They scoff at the accurate drivers in the "less than max speed" range (eagle, tl) and focus primarily on the speed aspect.:wall:
The longer the player plays, the problem is "form and technique" and they slowly downgrade their discs to slower speeds. (the Eagle, Tbird and TL become the driver of choice) The focus becomes accuracy and controlled flight more than breaking the 300' barrier.
I havent reached the next level, but it seems that the better you get the slower disc you throw. It always amazes me when i get to a tbox for a 250' hole and someone says, "i throw a putter on this, or i dont mind using my roc here sometimes..."
Less is more, unless you are new, in which case you try to "spend" your way to improving. All the while, each time you try your hardest to rip the super fast disc, you are improving and making your "less than full strength" / controlled shot better. If you suck, maybe you should go out there, buy a super fast disc and learn how to throw harder...
THIS IS SO TRUE....
I think I just ended my "spend my way to improving" period.... My girlfriend got me some discs for Christmas, started playing about January 2.... spent like crazy for about four weeks.... then yesterday played nine holes with just my DX CRO..... and had the best score ever.... (didn't break any records, but it was the best for me).....
Basics and technique matter more than $$$$....
AdamCaudle
Double Eagle Member
It's very well that you learned this as early as you did. I'm not so much buying discs now to improve, just to find what I like. I do have a some core molds that will stay in the bag though.
The more that I throw, I think that the grip has more potential for me as far as distance goes. Curling the fingers under tight to the rim and putting more pressure between the thumb and fore finger, I can feel the rip point better and occasionally get those random throw that really take off. Guess it is just time for more field practice.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
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- 8,799
Luckily I've never hit that "spend to improve" phase. I kinda figured when I started that it was pointless to get some discs, not be able to throw them, and then get some more. That said, I really really need to work on my form, especially bh...any backhand other than a putt or short approach is absolutely terrible.
Looking at those links that Technohic posted will help me for sure, especially the picture of the disc at the same angle as the arm. I'm positive I don't usually do that.
Looking at those links that Technohic posted will help me for sure, especially the picture of the disc at the same angle as the arm. I'm positive I don't usually do that.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2009
- Messages
- 630
Don't bash on the spend to improve phase. If I'd never bought overstable discs I never would have seen the merits of the flick, the tommie, the thumber, the skip, the flext shot etc. Without buying more putters I never would have realized that some fly better in the wind than others, and that there's a reason people prefer aviars to sonics. Without buying more mids I'd have missed out on the joy of having a really straight disc, like a broken in roc or a buzz, not to mention being able to shape a discs flight. If you don't update your technology you'll be stuck wondering why you can't get your stingray as far as I can throw a katana.
I have a whole bin full of discs. My bag is full but every few rounds I swap one or two out with the bin. I use the extras as loaners to get friends into the sport and I give lots of discs away to newbies and to family. Every now and then, I go back and realize the merits of a disc I had previously ditched, usually because I wasn't ready for it. I have more than a handful of discs that I bought thinking they'd be just what I needed, and they weren't. That's okay, in the bin they go. Part of the fun of this sport is I can buy every disc my heart desires and it's still cheaper than all the other sports I play. I've got $800 of ice hockey gear and it still costs me $20 every time I go play. I've got $1000 of ski gear and warm clothing and it still costs me $60 every time I go. $60 bucks of plastic keeps me happy for months and it doesn't cost me anything but gas to go to the course. Sure, you should really get to know your discs, but don't be afraid to try something new. Besides, it's fun to throw new plastic and see what it does.
I have a whole bin full of discs. My bag is full but every few rounds I swap one or two out with the bin. I use the extras as loaners to get friends into the sport and I give lots of discs away to newbies and to family. Every now and then, I go back and realize the merits of a disc I had previously ditched, usually because I wasn't ready for it. I have more than a handful of discs that I bought thinking they'd be just what I needed, and they weren't. That's okay, in the bin they go. Part of the fun of this sport is I can buy every disc my heart desires and it's still cheaper than all the other sports I play. I've got $800 of ice hockey gear and it still costs me $20 every time I go play. I've got $1000 of ski gear and warm clothing and it still costs me $60 every time I go. $60 bucks of plastic keeps me happy for months and it doesn't cost me anything but gas to go to the course. Sure, you should really get to know your discs, but don't be afraid to try something new. Besides, it's fun to throw new plastic and see what it does.
