Tired of people not renewing PDGA membership!

[Thumber]

I don't think I have ever seen a legitimate case of someone bagging. I have seen a player in Am2 shoot a smoking opening round and have other players in his division walk around shouting bagger and pressure him into moving up a division, at which point he played his normal game and got smoked. Drives me nuts hearing people walking around ranting about baggers. My sig says it all

 

[Tpro]

Kind of,but you didnt suggest an arbitrary number 5 pts above you rating that you believe all players higher than should be considered Pro.

You also didn't complain about how rich I am getting off selling my collection of DX Aviar/Roc player pack discs.

I personally dont care what division you play in, but if I was current (OMG BURN ME AT THE STAKE) and rated over 990 of course I would play Open. Unfortunately I'm not current and I play open anyways (OMG). I shoot good round and not amazing rounds. Playing Open makes me better more focus more talent. Ill qoute a good Forehand Pro out there... "Discgolf is to easy of a sport to get good at, not to play Pro."

 

[Usher]

sandbagger n.

To downplay or misrepresent one's ability in order to deceive someone.

So unless they are missing putts on purpose to lower their rating so they can move to a lower division and then take 1st place. They are not a bagger. If they are a 899 rated player and win Tournaments in the Rec division, try are playing in the division that the PDGA allows them to play in. No matter how many times they win, they can play there until their rating is 900.

Just because someone beats you, doesn't mean they are baggers. (coming from someone who has finished 2nd way more times than 1st)

 

[Zb1776]

Yup, i just re-picked up the sport again in July from about 5 years off, and was waiting until Oct 1 to renew, and played 1 pdga sanctioned tourney prior to renewing. I received a rating at that tourney despite not being a current pdga member. Then when I renewed on Oct 1, that became my official rating. So I could have sandbagged that tourney, but then my rating would be too high to do it again, even if i had never renewed, it would be in the system.

Insuring TD's have access to this would be a great way to prevent mass sandbagging at tourneys. People could only do it once before their name would be in the system.

you didnt recieve a rating for the tournament, your rounds were rated based on others' ratings. But you are wrong in saying that that became yur official rating... no rated round, goes towards your rating after you sign up. rounds rated before you sign up NEVER go towards your rating because the ratings are tied to your pdga number, not your name so those previous rounds wouldnt be tied to your name nor would they look up every round youve ever played in to tie them to your name, too much work.

get ya facts strait!!

 

[BENFTS]

I still don't like the fact that you can't play in a local major with the big dogs unless your current and passed the officials exam. I wanted to play the Masters Cup last year in Santa Cruz but couldn't because of this. If a TD can pick your division based on his opinion why cant I pay to play with the big dogs without a rating?

 

[krupicka]

you didnt recieve a rating for the tournament, your rounds were rated based on others' ratings. But you are wrong in saying that that became yur official rating... no rated round, goes towards your rating after you sign up. rounds rated before you sign up NEVER go towards your rating because the ratings are tied to your pdga number, not your name so those previous rounds wouldnt be tied to your name nor would they look up every round youve ever played in to tie them to your name, too much work.

get ya facts strait!!

Get your facts straight. There are a number of new members whose rating is based on rounds prior to joining the PDGA. I know I helped a couple around here do that. It is not automatic, but if you ask and have the info as to which events you participated in, it can be done.

 

[iacas]

The USGA has a table showing the odds of shooting an exceptional tournament score:
http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/understanding_handicap/articles/deanstable.html

Amateur tournaments routinely have rules that set limits: for example, if you are a 10 handicapper who shoots a tournament round score of -7 (seven below your handicap, that is), the odds of that happening are 1200:1, and if the tournament accepts scores of 850:1 or better, you'd be DQed.

Sandbagging in golf is not nearly as common as people think. And it's much, MUCH easier for a poorer player to have a good day than a top-rated player, too. Look at the table. A 0-6 handicap shooting -6 (net differential) is 790:1 while it's only 536:1 for a 6-12 and only 60:1 for a 30 handicapper.

You could probably build a table similar to that one for disc golf events. If you shoot an exceptional tournament round, you're ineligible and/or you have to move up. PDGA.org could even mark infractions on your profile.

 

[DavidSauls]

I still don't like the fact that you can't play in a local major with the big dogs unless your current and passed the officials exam. I wanted to play the Masters Cup last year in Santa Cruz but couldn't because of this. If a TD can pick your division based on his opinion why cant I pay to play with the big dogs without a rating?

It's not uncommon for an organization to require you to be a member to participate in the organization's activities.

The PDGA isn't that strict---it makes allowances for non-members to play in lower-tier events. I think you could actually play the major without a rating, just not without a membership or passing the rules test.

 

[jenb]

Footnote: PDGA members are responsible for knowing what division they qualify for, and entering an eligible division. I suppose if a PDGA member entered the wrong division and it wasn't noticed until after the tournament began, he might be subject to DQ.

This happened at a local tournament where there was no question that the player was not pre registered, so the exception allowing TD discretion did not apply, and the player was moved up to the higher division mid tournament. He still cashed in the higher division, but maybe that pushed someone else in the higher division out of cash.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The USGA handicapping system only uses your best 10 scores out of your most recent 20 versus PDGA ratings which essentially uses your best 49 rounds out of current 50. In the USGA, you should only beat your handicap 1 in 4 rounds. In the PDGA, assuming you are not improving, which isn't the case for many ams, half of your rounds will be better and half worse. You will shoot more than 30 rating points better than your rating 1 in 6 rounds. You will average 30 points better than your rating in a 2-round C-tier 1 in 36 events. Again, that's if your rating is currently stable and not improving. Many ams are improving so they are the ones who will be perceived as baggers even though it's their natural progression as they legitimately pass thru a ratings range where many may have leveled out.

 

[rd.bittle]

Wahhh. Anybody better than me is obviously bagging. If I'm not the meaning of rec player, what is? Since I'm the posterboy for rec/beginner, anyone better is bagging.

 

[iacas]

The USGA handicapping system only uses your best 10 scores out of your most recent 20 versus PDGA ratings which essentially uses your best 49 rounds out of current 50.

So? You can obviously adjust for that just the same way that you'll be adjusting for the fact that a USGA handicap index is "6.7" while a PDGA rating is "893". I'm just saying a chart LIKE that could be used.

You will shoot more than 30 rating points better than your rating 1 in 6 rounds.

Okay, so then a differential of 30 gets 5:1 odds.

Maybe a differential of 50 gets 20:1 odds. Maybe anything beyond 1000:1 odds bumps you up a level or puts a mark on your rating or something?

I still think a similar approach could work. No?

 

[BENFTS]

I still don't like the fact that you can't play in a local major with the big dogs unless your current and passed the officials exam. I wanted to play the Masters Cup last year in Santa Cruz but couldn't because of this. If a TD can pick your division based on his opinion why cant I pay to play with the big dogs without a rating?

Im aware I just dont like it and went on a rant. I just happen to play De La very well and would like to compete in the NT without all the red tape.

End Rant\

 

[Cgkdisc]

Handicapping is a different animal. The reason ball golf has the "bagger" chart is players cheat on handicaps because scores are self reported and not based only from tournament scores like PDGA ratings. They wouldn't need the chart if all scores in a player's handicap came only from league and tournament results.

 

[iacas]

Handicapping is a different animal.

I don't see it as being all that different.

The reason ball golf has the "bagger" chart is players cheat on handicaps because scores are self reported and not based only from tournament scores like PDGA ratings.

Right, so a player who doesn't have a PDGA rating can "self-report" their "rating" just the same as you can in golf.

They wouldn't need the chart if all scores in a player's handicap came only from league and tournament results.

Well, they still would, for several reasons, but my original post about this idea was not really about handicapping per se, it was just to suggest that a similar chart showing the "odds" of throwing an exceptional score could be part of the process by which players are put into proper brackets, moved from one bracket to another, etc.

Plus it might stop everyone from saying that a guy threw WAY above his level just because he won by eight throws over two rounds. Maybe at his rating level throwing two such rounds would only be 15:1 odds - perfectly believable and not at all an indication of sandbagging.

The more info - the more tools - the better equipped TDs could be. The USGA odds table is just a tool at the disposal of TDs, and a similar one could be used - in various ways - by disc golf TDs as well.

I hope to play a tournament next year. I just joined the PDGA. I have no rounds, and will probably enter the lowest available tournament bracket. But if I throw two 804-rated rounds in April and then throw two 882s in my next tournament, I could see being bumped up to whatever bracket that is even though my average is only 843 and was 804 before entering the second event.

 

[1978]

Yes, I've played against suppliers. They just pick up their ball... "What are you doing?" "Its my handicap, I can't get more than a 6 on this hole."

WHAT! Putt that thing out sucker! We are playing for BEER!

Anyways, there is none of this in DG handicapping they seem pretty different both ways.

I dislike handicapping. At some point it is impossible to win. If you shoot even par the most you can improve is 36 shots. As you get farther from Par it easier and there are more shots to improve. The PDGA already has ratings protected divisions, isn't this basically the same thing?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Philosophically, no one should have a problem if a player plays in the same division for one season no matter how good they get during that time. However, the ratings system does move people up automatically if they get better faster unless they are part of a series that allows them to stay in a division the whole season. There's no need to adjust a player's division or DQ them based on some stats chart, especially mid-event. Statistically, there will regularly be players who shoot well above their rating twice in a row, especially when a division size is over 20. It's a normal occurrence even if everyone's rating is accurate to the point. It's just the human performance variance in our game.

 

[cheddapig]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheddapig
That 10 bucks for a non member has nothing to do with ratings or record keeping.(CORRECT)
It's just a ploy to make money and justify members spending the money to join.(PARTIALLY CORRECT)
If u were never a member then u will not have a member number or rating associated with anything concerning disc golf.(COMPLETELY CORRECT IF YOU REPLACE DISC GOLF WITH PDGA)
And bagging happens all the time everywhere.(ALSO CORRECT)
But even a current pdga membership can't stop it. If a open player hasn't won in higher division he can patition to have his am status reinstated. So effectively after being out played he can become a bagger in am divisions with the blessing of the pdga (VAGUELY CORRECT TO A POINT)

Wrong. In many ways.(INCORRECT)


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheddapig
You can't tell anyone that they can't play open (BASICALLY CORRECT EXCEPT IN THE PDGA'S HIGHEST CLASS OF TOURNIMENTS) <--- sorry bout that. but in general the division of open is named due to it being open to anyone who wishes to play in it..

Wrong again. Try to register for MPO at an NT being a non or noncurrent member and let me know how that works out. Also, try to register for FPO in any event. You can't play "open."(CORRECT IN THE PDGA'S HIGHEST VENUES YOU CANT PLAY IF YOUR NOT A MEMBER ETC...)

but in all other instances you cant tell someone they cant play open

 

[jenb]

Just make it so we can buy memberships for the local baggers and enable us to make sure their pdga numbers are used for all their rounds. If they sign up without inputting the number, and we correct it, send the $10 extra they paid to whoever corrected it. That's one way to grow membership.

 

[dudiablo]

ratings are 'over rated' in my opinion. Unless you play in rated tournaments at unfamiliar courses your rating will be ballooned. You can get a local guy who only plays courses in their home town, so their rating would appear higher than if they were to travel and play courses that they don't know the 'local lines.'

Ratings are also based on how many people you beat in a given round. So someone could absolutely dominate at a long 'links' type course, but really struggle in a tight technical course. Are you suggesting that they play in different divisions based on the course, and not not go by their rating?

I fall in the the above category. Last few rounds I shot were rated at a long course and were rated at 1000, but then ill get into a tight technical course and shoot low 900's. I don't feel like that makes me a sandbagger because Ill shoot in an advanced division at a long course and shoot well enough to win open, but ill still play advanced at a short course and land near the bottom of my division.