This is a good point that you bring up. Conspiracy theories aside, I feel like when people argue over the differences between 3series molds vs originals, that it's kind of in their heads a bit. I have flat versions of eagles, teebirds, TLs, and leopards that could all pass for 3's. They all happen to be older plastic, but I think the variation has always been there between runs, or whatever. Do I think my flat teebirds are a speed faster and have less glide? No. That part feels like marketing to me. But I do think it's good that consumers can now order a 3 and expect it to be "flatter" than the original mold. I remember back in the day when people would flat top their rocs for whatever reason. Now I guess no one has to do that.
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[Innova] TL3 - Evolution of the TL
- Thread starter Hyzer Ale
- Start date
This is a good point that you bring up. Conspiracy theories aside, I feel like when people argue over the differences between 3series molds vs originals, that it's kind of in their heads a bit. I have flat versions of eagles, teebirds, TLs, and leopards that could all pass for 3's. They all happen to be older plastic, but I think the variation has always been there between runs, or whatever. Do I think my flat teebirds are a speed faster and have less glide? No. That part feels like marketing to me. But I do think it's good that consumers can now order a 3 and expect it to be "flatter" than the original mold. I remember back in the day when people would flat top their rocs for whatever reason. Now I guess no one has to do that.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Good Point, I see what you mean, now Dome consistency in regular Discs Is off to the point You have to hunt for the dome you want, it is not like before when a particular run was one way it seems that a run is now Varying in height to the point you have to look for a disc with similar height to the one you want. Now it also seems that the Wrong stamp gets out on a disc more then it used to and not on purpose, by accident with Innova. like making a Valkyrie have a mold of a Thunderbird and stamp of a Valkyrie on it. If Innova slowed down a bit on its molding and production a bit they might have discs that are correct more often then not. Also The Speed 13 and 14 discs are more inconsistent then the others and Star Plastic is the most inconsistent plastic I have seen, Flashing on some discs make them worthless until the disc is broken in and flashing is gone, Shark in Star is a good example of that.
Now you can have 3's of discs and expect them to fly the same one disc to the next as opposed to having to find a flat topped disc below a speed 9/8 disc. The Valkyrie is one that I hope gets a 3 for though the Champion Glow as of now seems to be that flat topped or low dome version the old JK Valkyrie from mid 2000's seemed to be, Those flat ones that you could throw low into a headwind when new to broken in.
So you're saying that in all of their other production they have no consistency at all, but they're perfect at making the "3" discs?
Come on, dude.
Come on, dude.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
They do have consitancy in the plastics besides Star possibly R-Pro as well for a few molds (Dart comes to mind) in all discs except Distance Drivers speed 9 and up. Most brands have this problem with discs past speed 10 say a speed 11.
SD86
Banned
I am not going to say y'all are wrong about this. I eyeballed my GStar TL, GStar TL3 that I got from the Proshop a good while ago, Star TLs, and Star TL3. The GStar TL is very domey. The Star TLs are like Archangel tops.
My GStar TL3 is definitely flat topped after a rise from the rim edge. The Star TL3 does look more like a less domey TL; neither of my Star TL3 discs have any flatness on top.
If the Star TL3 flies well, and does what I hope and expect, it ain't gonna matter; I'll use it.
P.S. My two Shark3s are definitely flat-topped, as in intentionally so. So I'm not sure they are a bad mold-up that was foisted upon us.
SD86
Banned
I have a 165g Star Valkyrie that is just about board flat and is very overstable. It's not a misprinted Thunderbird (I have one of those very OS Star Thunderbirds; they're different), but my F2 Champ Valkyrie is less OS than that Star Valk, which could pass for a Valk3. So I'm not hoping for a Valk3, so sorry...
SD86
Banned
One final comment on Star plastic: I have a board flat Star Mako3, and my Champ Mako3 is not as board flat. I have a couple of Star Roc3s that are board flat, put-a-level-on-it flat, and my Champ Roc3s are almost as flat. My Star Aviar3s are very flat on top, no doubt about it.
Point being: Star plastic WILL mold up board flat... if they want it to. The fact these TL3s aren't that flat on top lends some credence to the "conspiracy theory", such as it is.
opcorn:
Point being: Star plastic WILL mold up board flat... if they want it to. The fact these TL3s aren't that flat on top lends some credence to the "conspiracy theory", such as it is.
opcorn:Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
We have been over this before SD86, Star Valkyries are more overstable then say a Champion if both are the flatter dome types. I know and the older Valkyries were more a speed 9 even when new, as the newer Valkyries are almost like a speed 9.5 or 10 speed. My old 2005 Valkyrie as of this year had become like my XL in terms of rim thickness and was time to replace the old Valkyrie. those old Valkyrie when new are Like the Champion Glow verity when new so I got that, I noticed with all the bigger drivers that a Champion Glow veriety is like the old Champion plastic from 2000's when it was new.
SD86
Banned
Not disagreeing with you at all. I was just saying that there's no need for a Valk3 when there are Star Valks out there that are very flat, and you should be able to find them at PIASs and such places.
New Valks are like Speed 10s? Hmmm, that's interesting... Filing that Beast-L gap, one wonders? Now I'm all curious and my wallet is getting mad...
Point being: Star plastic WILL mold up board flat... if they want it to. The fact these TL3s aren't that flat on top lends some credence to the "conspiracy theory", such as it is.
Point being: every plastic WILL have variance in how they mold up. The fact that these TL3s aren't that flat on top lends credence to the fact that **** comes out differently all the time. They made flat discs long before they stamped a 3 on it. There is no conspiracy.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2017
- Messages
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Not even just Star Valks. I have a Champion Valkyrie that is flat and overstable. It's about two ticks more overstable than any other Valkyrie I've ever seen. I honestly kind of wish they would make a new mold that was always like this, because it's the best forehand disc I have, and I'm scared to death of losing this one.
SD86
Banned
I agree; it's not really a conspiracy. Go back and read my comment in the context of the latest set of messages in the thread, and you'll see what I'm saying.
No..
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Thank you, No more like a 9.5 almost speed 10 kind of where an Discraft Avenger lands speed wise. The new Valkyrie are like the same disc you can throw long low and flat just a hair faster if you get a low dome one, I may have had an old Champion L version of a Valkyrie back in the day in 2006-2017. My Star one from 2008 still in the bag is not as worn down as my old 2006 Champion one but is still less then my New Champion Glow one from August 2017. Sorry to take over the channel with Valkyrie talk.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Mine is like that if you get the Champion glow plastic type has something to do with that but still not as stable as the Star versions, most of them.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
No I am saying that Innova is trying to get more money from Customers by selling the Champion Shark as a 3 now as the Star and G Star versions are domey. Look at an old Pro Shark, I got one in 2014 last of the old type Pro at my Walmart still made until that year some time and the Pro Shark is flatter almost a 3 type mold but not quite it has some low dome to it. Champion Shark made in the 2000's was nearly a 3 mold I think that was due to how the plastic was molding up at the time. So now the Shark 3 is made as a Shark 3 on purpose but in Champion as it molds more to the old Champion Sharks but they made the new Shark 3 flat on purpose. I am surprised that Innova did not have to make a new mold for these discs, I thought they did at one point.
Questatement
Double Eagle Member
Ok, I never tried the gstar TL3 but the star falls dead center b/t the star TL & star TB. I had no hint of the TL3 turning over outside of a head wind and I did have some good wind to test it. I release all out in the high 50's mph and it took a 12-15 mph head wind to turn it to any noticable degree so if you have a 70+ mph release, you might want to back off this thing. That is, unless your attempting a big turn over line.
slowplastic
* Ace Member *
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- 6,254
That sounds great. Does it have some glide or is it pretty power hungry?
Questatement
Double Eagle Member
Powdered down (45? mph) on a flex line gets pretty equal movement on both sides of center with a landing zone around 300' as the crow files. Personally, I couldn't get it past 360' without a left to right cross wind which pretty much kept it on a near rope line another 20' due to more forward fade.
B/T a star TL & TB should tell you just about everything if you've thrown both.
B/T a star TL & TB should tell you just about everything if you've thrown both.
slowplastic
* Ace Member *
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I was just wondering because of the "3" treatment top if they lacked any glide. If you're getting them out 350'ish at your release speed then that sounds good to me.
