Tomahawk not turning over, what gives?

[dsb1829]

Got a 11X flat firebird. It is wicked overstable. That makes for good hyzer bombing. I thought it would make a good overhand disc. But it usually stays dang near vertical and rolls on landing.

I throw a D1, Groove, and several others and they turn over glide and pan out. I am hitting ~250-275' on flat ground. Heck, even picked up a new DX firebird and it flips as expected. My other throw info is in my sig line.

Any ideas on why the Champ fb usually won't flip?

 

[zenbot]

I'm guessing that you're not getting enough wrist snap in your release. More torque causes the disc to flip. Couple that with a very overstable disc and there you have it. Do you also throw thumbers?

 

[tylerc]

its more stable so it will take more height to flip.. I usually tomahawk zombies but when I pick up my predator it is straight up and straight down cuz I have so little height and speed on my tomahawk so you have a similar situation.

 

[Dan Ensor]

If you release vertical or more hyzer than vertical, you're relying on high speed turn to flip the disc. Without wrist roll, the Firebird doesn't have high speed turn, so it will land on the angle you release it on. If you get any amount anhyzer of vertical, when the disc starts falling, it will catch some wind and flip the rest of the way over.

 

[Ricta]

It's just like throwing FH. The more OS the disc, the more resistant it is to flipping over. Either throw it harder, or change the angle of your release.

 

[dsb1829]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Upon reading them I had one of those, "well duh" moments. I do clock my tomahawk over to 9 or 10 for close range. Hadn't really though of it for longer shots.

I do thumbers as well, but don't have as confident of a grip. Usually 40-50' less distance. I only use them when I absolutely need to.

 

[rphancock1]

I've had similar problems with tomahawk shots, being that they land on edge and roll. I have a decent forehand, so I don't really understand what's missing.. Usually release around 11 o'clock. The odd thing is, I can throw the exact same disc (firebird, shock, flow) as a thumber and it behaves exactly right. I don't throw these shots anytime other than an escape from trouble, so I guess I should practice them more.

Any ideas about why the thumber works and the tommy doesn't?

 

[MikePinchico]

I'm guessing that you're not getting enough wrist snap in your release. More torque causes the disc to flip. Couple that with a very overstable disc and there you have it. Do you also throw thumbers?

This^

 

[zenbot]

I've had similar problems with tomahawk shots, being that they land on edge and roll. I have a decent forehand, so I don't really understand what's missing.. Usually release around 11 o'clock. The odd thing is, I can throw the exact same disc (firebird, shock, flow) as a thumber and it behaves exactly right. I don't throw these shots anytime other than an escape from trouble, so I guess I should practice them more.

Any ideas about why the thumber works and the tommy doesn't?

For me the thumb acts better as a rip/pivot point. This causes more torque. I have the exact same issue you do and my tomahawks travel about half the distance of my thumbers.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I've had similar problems with tomahawk shots, being that they land on edge and roll. I have a decent forehand, so I don't really understand what's missing.. Usually release around 11 o'clock. The odd thing is, I can throw the exact same disc (firebird, shock, flow) as a thumber and it behaves exactly right. I don't throw these shots anytime other than an escape from trouble, so I guess I should practice them more.

Any ideas about why the thumber works and the tommy doesn't?

Thumbers are rarely released with the bottom edge pointing away from the flip. When they are, they can fly quite a ways without flipping also. A la thumber rollers.

 

[swed]

I always had the best results with an overstable mold like a banshee or firebird. Once the disc got beat-in good it would make for a great tomahawk disc.

 

[Jesterian]

I'm guessing that you're not getting enough wrist snap in your release. More torque causes the disc to flip. Couple that with a very overstable disc and there you have it. Do you also throw thumbers?

Yup.

 

[dsb1829]

May just be this particular FB is too stable without clocking it over for starters. Probably nothing that can be solved online. Some of this advice makes me think the poster didn't read my initial post. I throw tomahawk at least 1-2X per round and regularly park certain holes. I do this with other discs that are OS. My whippets and champ groove are particularly OS and they turn over just fine.

 

[klittle08]

May just be this particular FB is too stable without clocking it over for starters. Probably nothing that can be solved online. Some of this advice makes me think the poster didn't read my initial post. I throw tomahawk at least 1-2X per round and regularly park certain holes. I do this with other discs that are OS. My whippets and champ groove are particularly OS and they turn over just fine.

This would be my immediate suggestion, is not all discs are made for everyone to overhand. Just like with backhand/forehand drives, some discs are just too much if you don't have the arm speed for it. 300-330' is my max distance with a thumber and I can't make an OS FB or XXX work without adding a lot of angle to the release. However, someone like Kyle Pinkman who is probably throwing 25-30 mph faster in the 450'+ range is throwing super OS FB's and Flicks for max D.

 

[Kiekko_FIN]

FB or XXX needs over 100m (328ft) to make full rotation. I hit 127km/h (78,9 mph) to radar with thumber. Get something easier at first and gain some arm speed.

 

[MikePinchico]

An eagle would be a good disc to learn your tommy. I still use it for around 300' but I use my VIP giant for over 350'.

 

[gvdg jake]

Consider releasing at 11 or 10 o'clock instead of vertically.

^ This. I usually throw mine at a 11 o'clock angle and it flips just enough to land on its top and flare up.