Trophy Only... Trophy or Trophy Disc?

[DavidSauls]

The lesson for our prospective TD is that there are a range of preferences and incentives among disc golfers. There's no right formula to please us all.

 

[Tues Tim]

Sorry to call you out (not really, just being polite) but you did exactly what my OP was talking about with ams whining about not getting plastic for winning. You're an AM. be happy you got your players pack, play the tournament, get your ratings bumped and be happy to play this sport in an organized manner with the help of one or two extremely dedicated TDs who really don't want to hear the complaints when they hand out a trophy instead of plastic to some greedy Rec players who should be cashing in AM2.

Being that you're an intermediate player, you'd get your players pack and payed in plastic... why are you complaining again???

Opinion was asked and you started jumping on people for giving it. Wow. You sir are a douch.

 

[Horsman]

Tues Tim please be quiet SmmothSailor is not a douche. You are for taking offense to things. SmoothSailor is correct about almost all. Rec players need incentive to move up to where they should be and you should not be complaining because you play intermediate and there is a plastic pay out. If you want more plastic then move up to advanced where the payouts are better and if not then deal with it.

 

[craigg]

One thing I used to do for trophies. When I would get custom discs made for an event - I would get black trophy discs made w/the tournament stamp in only enough qty to give to the winners of each division being offered. That way it was "special" in that there were only so many made - but it didn't cost extra to have a trophy made. Just one of many potential options.

 

[Horsman]

One thing I used to do for trophies. When I would get custom discs made for an event - I would get black trophy discs made w/the tournament stamp in only enough qty to give to the winners of each division being offered. That way it was "special" in that there were only so many made - but it didn't cost extra to have a trophy made. Just one of many potential options.

We do that here in Wisconsin for tournaments that are in the Wisconsin Tour. They are something that are. Wry sought after so it just adds more incentive for people to win.

 

[SirRaph]

Trophy. My ego is hungry at all times.

 

[Sadjo]

As a TD I can't see doing one AM division in trophy only because some people think players in that division are bagging. If players are playing their rating there should be no problems.

I'm doing two different things in 2012. I've posted about both ideas here to get thoughts before moving forward. One is the Winner Takes All. That will be a cash in cash out for all players. The second one will be all AM divisions will cost $20 or $25 with all deductions being made public so all players know exactly where all funds go. That event will have the optional player packs available.

I'm running four events in 2012 and all will be different from each other. One doubles event with four different formats, one triple team challange, winner takes all and the cheap entry fee option.

Players continue to ask for different options from including lunch in entry fees to cheaper events to TDs selling plastic for wholesale instead of retail. I'm trying different options (other than selling for wholesale) and I'll see how it goes.

 

[scarpfish]

There is no correct answer to this question for a TD, except to do what he wants. If players aren't satisfied with how he runs his show, they can go play some other tournament, or put on their own.

 

[DSmith]

We did a version of Trophy Only for Lexington Open this last year but instead of Rec we did it with Novice. Basically both divisions had the same entry fee but the difference being Novice got their entry fee back in plastic (trophy only players pack) and the top 3 got trophies provided by Parks and Rec. So every Novice got the same amount of tournament stamped plastic as the other, just the top finishers got a nice trophy. If they wanted to play for a scaled payout in plastic they could play Rec if that was what they were into. Also if you had cashed in Novice the year before in the Lexington Open you couldn't play novice even if your rating dictated it, because you already cashed in novice.
This was done to encourage new players without tournament experience to play in a big tournament without worrying about getting washed out by baggers.
Yes there were still repeat novice players from the previous years but they hadn't cashed yet. The response was positive after the tournament because they got their moneys worth.

Last thought is on the "sweet trophy" thing. Nice trophies cost money. We are lucky to have a disc golf budget with Parks and Rec which goes toward trophies, port a pots, shelter rentals etc. but for a grass roots TD I can see where this extra expense can add up. How much of a deduction can you take out of entries before it becomes noticeable in payout.

 

[chrismetken]

I would rather have a trophy because your not going to ever loose it and you will always remember your win. I dont mind picking up a cool disc for CTP or to go along with the trophy though.

 

[Brall]

i'd prefer a $1 hand warmer over a $100 trophy.

i would just donate a trophy to a trophy shop so that it can be re-used for kids.

i'd like to add to this.

if a td spent hours acquiring the trophies and the end result is that the td put$2.50 into each trophy, then i would MUCH rather save that td that time that he put into it and get a anything else. one small idea would be a $2.50 gift certificate to our local disc golf shop.

 

[ViolaBouquet]

I see I have found two of the "whiney poons" I mentioned when I said that ams should play for trophy only to begin with, being we are AMATEURS and not professionals making a living off of this. Hopefully you decide one day to move up to a level that promotes competition and cash payouts so you don't feel like you got ripped off anymore. Pros play for cash because they are PROFESSIONALS trying to make a living doing this, Ams play the sport to support the professionals and like any other sport, should only be given trophies. Ever get paid out in hundreds of dollars in basketball merch for winning an amateur basketball tournament (replace basketball with ANY sport)?

As for my tournaments, if you're playing rec (and you place), you get a trophy. If you're playing MA2 or MA1 you get paid out in plastic and if you're in Open you get the cashola (minus tournament costs). As always (because they bitch if I don't) the ams ALL get a players pack valued at more than their entries.

I've been taking note of all the great ideas that have been brought to this thread and will definitely be getting something unique that the players who do place will actaully WANT to have on their shelf. The traveling trophy seems fun, but for rec?

And I agree with Snowren, that if I don't do this right this time, it won't work any other time, so I will definitely be careful when treading this line in hopes that I get it right and the baggers move up, the new players start playing and love it and everyone just goes on as normal (as this will be the norm if it works).

I never felt that not being as good a another player, and participating in a division with other people who are not as good, makes it that I don't deserve the same treatment as other ams who get merch payout in their division. I play for fun, but I wouldn't want an "AM3" winning trophy as much as the next person. I have never won "hundreds of dollars" worth of stuff. It only seems right that after paying $35 to participate, that if I play well and win, that $40 of discs seems fair.

 

[DSmith]

I never felt that not being as good a another player, and participating in a division with other people who are not as good, makes it that I don't deserve the same treatment as other ams who get merch payout in their division. I play for fun, but I wouldn't want an "AM3" winning trophy as much as the next person. I have never won "hundreds of dollars" worth of stuff. It only seems right that after paying $35 to participate, that if I play well and win, that $40 of discs seems fair.

Which is why we went the route we did with our version of "trophy only". You pay the same amount as the other division that has scaled payout but you get your moneys worth in discs for your entry automatically and if you play good you also get a trophy. It puts alot of value into participating in a tournament. Now if you want to take the chance at getting more payout then play up.

The main issue I have seen is value of the tournament experience. That's why you see so much bitching about trophy only or payout or players packs. Players, most of them, want to get their moneys worth back for the entry fee they paid. I almost feel that the modified trophy only we do may just be the route to go for most am divisions in the future.
In the mean time be patient with us TD's we are trying to make everyone happy.

 

[Karl]

Trophy disc. They don't fall over, are normally smaller, are very sport specific, can be read better, and can be practical.

Karl

 

[Royal Hill]

Just so I can get a good reference for this discussion... what value of trophy are we actually talking about?
Are we aiming for a $5 or under TD cost, or $15? higher, or in-between?

is it imperative that the trophy be "valued" at $(x) dollars but cost significantly less?

How custom can a trophy get before it swings the cost to perceived value ratio?

 

[SmoothSailor]

im going for some hand made wooden trophies, theyre gonna cost 25.00 each.

 

[Royal Hill]

Thanks for that clarification smoothsailor. I feel it makes a big difference if were talking stock catalog gold looking cup on a plastic base type trophy vs something that speaks "hand made" even from 20 paces. The current golf culture does seem to value things that are handcrafted and give them added value.

If costs are going to be at the 20-25(+) mark... what would you think about further thinking outside the box for other event planners? (I like the hand made wood trophies if they are truly perceived as unique and non-catalog)

restaurant gift certs, or other "cash value" options? (I know you loose the wholesale/retail value edge, but it could start to shift the player culture if that was desired) But what if the restaurant/store/etc.. was a sponsor in that way - either partial or full?

and - at $25, its the price for a DD dyemax custom printed single disc - that could be the trophy disc if you're going that way. (tourney prize graphic formatted, not gift cert for it)

 

[Royal Hill]

Which is why we went the route we did with our version of "trophy only". You pay the same amount as the other division that has scaled payout but you get your moneys worth in discs for your entry automatically and if you play good you also get a trophy. It puts alot of value into participating in a tournament. Now if you want to take the chance at getting more payout then play up.

The main issue I have seen is value of the tournament experience. That's why you see so much bitching about trophy only or payout or players packs. Players, most of them, want to get their moneys worth back for the entry fee they paid.

I like this post as it brings up a few key issues that I've seen.

There's something about disc golf culture that I'm still getting used to. It's the last line I included in the quote that most players want to get their moneys worth back for the entry fee they paid. (I'm inserting a group assumed context to mean money's worth "in stuff". At least in theory, if most, get back equal or more than they paid... things don't add up for success. (I know...wholesale/retail..blah,blah,blah...)

There's the saying that over time you get what you ask for, and if a group ultimately develops consistently unrealistic expectations...that you have to look at yourself, your industry, or your sport in this case and start asking..

did we train everyone to this end?

In the process of trying to add "Value" to events, have we "cheapened" the tourney experience to where we view the transaction as a bag of commodities? This would work if people walked up, paid a fee, and walked off with a players pack,etc and got back in their cars. In fact, just to take the thought to the extreme, by the trained culture, many are doing their value accounting by looking into their gift bags and adding up the value, and in most cases, mentally assigning "$0" to the playing experience itself.

I don't have a simple solution to this, but we, as a sport could do better to
promote the value of the tournament experience in and of itself. There will always be that drive at the higher ranks (as there should be), but starting to shift the focus at the lower ranks is a noble goal in my opinion. Which is why I like this discussion.

 

[craftsman]

I dont understand the hate on these boards for rec players.
In my area, a rec player usually will have to shoot am 2 scores to win. Most rec players have been playing a few years but lack consistancy. Once their consistancy improves, their ratings will bump them up.

I fail to see why so much hate on rec but not adv or int.
The whole "they should get better" mentality should apply to all divisions if thats how.you feel.

 

[craftsman]

Personally, i dont care about crappy temp baskets or plastic ill never throw.
I.just dont see why an adv or int player should have a chance at winning payout but not rec.