[Discraft] Understable Compliment to the Buzzz

[Three Putt]

That's the point though. It's a different disc. Throw it like you would a putter, not a buzzz. Yes it's a mid, but that doesn't mean you throw it like a mid.

Can you throw two mids that are different speeds and require different power? Sure you can. However if you can throw two that are the same speed and require the same power that you can basically throw the same way, you have less to screw up. To me less to screw up=better. If you can do it the easy way or do it the hard way and end up in the same place, why do it the hard way?

 

[Smigles]

The Comet is too fundamentally different in how you must throw it...If you throw it like a Buzzz at Buzzz heights and distances it won't work.

Then throw it like a comet !

Realy, the comet is the understable counterpart. These are the two midranges i carry in my bag.

 

[CwAlbino]

Can you throw two mids that are different speeds and require different power? Sure you can. However if you can throw two that are the same speed and require the same power that you can basically throw the same way, you have less to screw up. To me less to screw up=better. If you can do it the easy way or do it the hard way and end up in the same place, why do it the hard way?

But you don't end up in the same place. The comet is a stable driver when thrown correctly, it's when it's thrown incorrectly that it's understable. And regardless, there should be two styles of throwing. Snap based for putter throws, and discs like the comet. Velocity type throws, for drivers and more speed based mids like the buzzz. Only two ways.

 

[SpringDgLover]

b/c it requires a whole different throwing style. You want discs that compliment each other, not two mids you have to throw completely differently.

That's ridiculous, I carry Buzzz's and Comets and throw them the exact same way and they do different things, one goes straight finishes left the other does the same but finishes right. Granted the Comet has more glide and you have to understand it will go further in certain situations but Im confused on how you assume just because a disc is different why it requires different form. I think Scooter (Pro 1015 rated player) will back me up on this that if you're switching your throwing style up to throw different discs your doing something wrong. It's like Climo says, you throw all discs the same way and let the disc do the work. The Comet is without a doubt one of the finest understable/stable mids on the market and your reasoning for not throwing it is unsound.

 

[Smigles]

WTH is this discussion ? Totaly useles.

Every disc behaves differently and you have to throw them differently. Yes, the comet does not fly the same way as a buzzz. Yes, it ends up in a different spot than a buzzz. So what ? You carry the two of them because you need them to do different things. If you want them to do the same thing, just use the same disc.

As springdglover said. They go straight, buzzz ends up left and comet ends up right. You pick one or the other depending on the line you want to throw. I dont see how this is bad.

 

[SpringDgLover]

You can't just throw a bunch of random discs together, all different speeds/flight characteristics, and expect to get anything but lucky

Really... just lucky, so when Feldberg carries 30 different discs that all do different things he's just super lucky. I know you're a smart guy Discspeed and I've learned alot from you on DGR but that seems sort of short sighted, because in my opinion a player owes it to himself to try as many molds as they can to see what works for them. Also having mids of varying speeds and flight characteristics doesnt have to be a bad thing, it can be a great thing, it just means you have to learn that specific disc, master it and when the oppurtunity presents itself you will know how to throw it in a certain situation. I always hear about players preaching a minimalist bag, but if you take the time to learn your discs what's wrong with having a bunch of molds if they work for you? I'd say nothing and I think Nikko and Feldberg prove my point everytime they win a NT.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Lets use two of the best players in the world as an example to prove my point. That's totally valid.

 

[WillACarpenter]

Skurf, buddy, we go way back. You were my first DGCR trade ever. First used disc purchase ever.

...I think I've been PRETTY CLEAR on this subject.

\/\/

 

[discspeed]

That's ridiculous, I carry Buzzz's and Comets and throw them the exact same way and they do different things, one goes straight finishes left the other does the same but finishes right. Granted the Comet has more glide and you have to understand it will go further in certain situations but Im confused on how you assume just because a disc is different why it requires different form. I think Scooter (Pro 1015 rated player) will back me up on this that if you're switching your throwing style up to throw different discs your doing something wrong. It's like Climo says, you throw all discs the same way and let the disc do the work. The Comet is without a doubt one of the finest understable/stable mids on the market and your reasoning for not throwing it is unsound.

You are actually proving my point...To throw both the Buzzz and Comet how they are meant to be thrown to fly correctly, YOU HAVE TO SWITCH YOUR FORM UP. I'm also talking about the same thing Climo is. Kenny throws a single kind of disc...He likes discs that have to be thrown fairly hard to work. He would never throw something like a Comet (or the Innova equivalent), a Roadrunner, Sidewinder, River, or any other disc that had a ton of glide. He likes his discs to take his form and do his will, and not have any extra glide or will of their own. This is exactly what I'm talking about...Throwing different discs that have similar glide/flight characteristics across speeds, and Climo does exactly this.

Really... just lucky, so when Feldberg carries 30 different discs that all do different things he's just super lucky. I know you're a smart guy Discspeed and I've learned alot from you on DGR but that seems sort of short sighted, because in my opinion a player owes it to himself to try as many molds as they can to see what works for them. Also having mids of varying speeds and flight characteristics doesnt have to be a bad thing, it can be a great thing, it just means you have to learn that specific disc, master it and when the oppurtunity presents itself you will know how to throw it in a certain situation. I always hear about players preaching a minimalist bag, but if you take the time to learn your discs what's wrong with having a bunch of molds if they work for you? I'd say nothing and I think Nikko and Feldberg prove my point everytime they win a NT.

You are very misguided in thinking Feldberg carries 30 different discs. He carries about 50 for one, but he has a core of 5-6 molds that account for 90% of his shots, and then he's got some specialty discs for certain shots to fill holes where his primary molds are weak. He also plays 100 different courses a year...On any given one he's only using 20% of what he carries. Oh, and did I also mention he's probably got some natural talent that most of lack? I've also played with Nikko, and he's emptied his bag on holes warming up with me...He doesn't carry that many discs at all, once again, some primary molds with some specialty discs to cover some specific situations because he plays all over the place.

 

[Smigles]

To throw both the Buzzz and Comet how they are meant to be thrown to fly correctly, YOU HAVE TO SWITCH YOUR FORM UP. I'm also talking about the same thing Climo is.

Oh, and did I also mention he's probably got some natural talent that most of lack?

1 : Not true, or depending on how you define "fly correctly". If i throw these two discs ( buzzz and comet ) the same way, they do different things. Which is exactly what i want, that's why i have different discs. They do fly "correctly" for me. Of course if you want them to fly the same way, you will get in problems, but why would you want two different discs to fly the same ??

2 : There is no such thing as "natural talent". At least 99.9% of what you call talent is practice. If you practice enugh, you can throw any disc and more generaly speaking become good at anything.

The only factor is how early you start, The younger folks learn faster. The people that start in the kid's age are the ones you call "talented", but they just look like it because throwing became second nature to them. Same difference between a native speaker and somebody who learns a language later on. You wouldnt call the native speaker more "talented", would you ?

 

[Technohic]

No problem...I've just noticed that this is kind of a self perpetuating phenomenon on this site in general. Lots of people post without reading, which results in pages of duplicate answers, and then it makes it even more likely that someone will post without reading (because the thread is several pages of drivel) and it kills any good discussion that is (or potentially could be) going on.

Well, I for one have found this very interesting and read the entire thin; especially since Im not totally sold on my Cores, but pretty close. I think I've been torqueing them over for turnover shots when I might be happier giving touch to a Stingray. How well do you think that would match a Core?

I guess I should ask, since you have thrown all the discs that I could ever want to try, what mids respond closer to a River? Or at least as far as mids go? There some sort of set up you think fits relatively well?

 

[TheWCG]

Just throw a drone with your opposite arm. Solved!

 

[discspeed]

1 : Not true, or depending on how you define "fly correctly". If i throw these two discs ( buzzz and comet ) the same way, they do different things. Which is exactly what i want, that's why i have different discs. They do fly "correctly" for me. Of course if you want them to fly the same way, you will get in problems, but why would you want two different discs to fly the same ??

2 : There is no such thing as "natural talent". At least 99.9% of what you call talent is practice. If you practice enugh, you can throw any disc and more generaly speaking become good at anything.

The only factor is how early you start, The younger folks learn faster. The people that start in the kid's age are the ones you call "talented", but they just look like it because throwing became second nature to them. Same difference between a native speaker and somebody who learns a language later on. You wouldnt call the native speaker more "talented", would you ?

You can throw the Buzzz and Comet together, but if you play different courses and need variable lines and variable distances with each, the way you have to throw them to change up line and distance is totally different. You can do it, but it's not optimal. I don't like throwing discs that I don't understand inside and out because throwing discs "the same way" and letting them do their thing is a myth. Every day the wind is different, the temperature, humidity, and pressure is different, so if you don't know your disc inside and out you will not be consistent. I've practiced with Climo and he can make his most understable roller Roc fly on a sharp hyzer. The chances of him doing this in any given round is highly unlikely, but he knows his discs that well. He would not know his discs that well if he had a bunch of mids with different speed and glide characteristics.

Your second argument is nothing short of completely ridiculous. Start two kids out disc golfing, give them the exact same practice, and one is going to be better than the other. This is because of talent, which is actually a quotient of a bunch of different things that you can break down such as physical strength, flexibility, muscle memory, hand eye coordination, and it goes on and on. I've practiced much more than Climo the whole time I've known him, but obviously he is still the Champ, and I'm still just me. You can work hard, practice, and for most of us become decent. At the top level it is about talent. Do you really think Will Schusterick has practiced more than all the veterans he beat at USDGC? Barry Schulz/Ken Climo grew up playing, have a million times more experience, etc, etc, but the 18 year old beat them all. GG was throwing 500' when he was 13 years old. You wouldn't call that talent?

Practice and work ethic is very important, but anyone who has ever been a hard worker and played competitive sports knows somebody that doesn't practice nearly as hard but shows up and kicks butt simply based on natural ability. It happened to me when I ran competitively, when I swam competitively, played basketball, and definitely in disc golf.

 

[discspeed]

Well, I for one have found this very interesting and read the entire thin; especially since Im not totally sold on my Cores, but pretty close. I think I've been torqueing them over for turnover shots when I might be happier giving touch to a Stingray. How well do you think that would match a Core?

I guess I should ask, since you have thrown all the discs that I could ever want to try, what mids respond closer to a River? Or at least as far as mids go? There some sort of set up you think fits relatively well?

Jesper L. helped design the Fuse to match what the Core didn't do well. The Core is very close to the Buzzz, so this is probably why it compliments it so well. To help you more personally I'd have to play some rounds/field practice with you to see your style and what discs work best for it.

 

[Technohic]

Jesper L. helped design the Fuse to match what the Core didn't do well. The Core is very close to the Buzzz, so this is probably why it compliments it so well. To help you more personally I'd have to play some rounds/field practice with you to see your style and what discs work best for it.

I just needed another excuse to get my hands on more Lat 64 goodness. lol

Might as well just try a Fuse since I have like all of their discs a lot except the Vision I didnt care too much for; but then, I dont throw anything that fast yet.

 

[simpletwist]

Meteor

 

[Smigles]

Start two kids out disc golfing, give them the exact same practice, and one is going to be better than the other. This is because of talent, which is actually a quotient of a bunch of different things that you can break down such as physical strength, flexibility, muscle memory, hand eye coordination, and it goes on and on. I've practiced much more than Climo the whole time I've known him, but obviously he is still the Champ, and I'm still just me. You can work hard, practice, and for most of us become decent. At the top level it is about talent. Do you really think Will Schusterick has practiced more than all the veterans he beat at USDGC? Barry Schulz/Ken Climo grew up playing, have a million times more experience, etc, etc, but the 18 year old beat them all. GG was throwing 500' when he was 13 years old. You wouldn't call that talent?

Of course there are little differences, but in general the two kids will beat the crap out of 99% of the players that start at a later age. Moreso, the difference between these two kids will never be big as long as they both play and practice the same amount.

At the top level, all the guys can play the disc well. It is more about the shape you are in that day, how much you like the course, and most of all the mental game. Still not talent. All the guys at the top level have a feeling for the disc, all of them have worked long and practiced alot. You can ask any top athlete, it is all in the head. They all have the muscles, they all have practiced for ages. Look at olympic ski racing, the difference is often less than a tenth of a second, and they ALL say that it is in the mental game. No wonder that they all have mental coaches.

"In training everyone focuses on 90% physical and 10% mental, but in the races its 90% mental because there's very little that separates us physically at the elite level".
Elka Graham

"I wouldn't say anything is impossible. I think that everything is possible as long as you put your mind to it and put the work and time into it".
Michael Phelps

"A world record is 99% training and 1% talent"
( forgot who said that... )

 

[Mongkut]

Just throw a drone with your opposite arm. Solved!

I've been working on LHBH (Naturally RHBH). While I can't get my disc to go as far this way, I also can't stop them from getting a nice curving fade to the right (or from the perspective of a RHBH a nice turn).

But I digress. I feel like there are a lot of people suggesting the Fuse to complement the Buzzz (maybe Discspeed is just being very vocal, I admit to not having read every post). I find this ironic as I bought a X Comet earlier this week to go with my Buzzz after much research on the two disc (Comet and Fuse, that is). While part of the reason I got the Comet was to work on my form (I've heard it makes you work for clean releases), I also wanted something that would anhyzer a bit easier than my Buzzzes. But know it sounds like I should get a Fuse as it matches the way the Buzzz is released. Oh poor me, having to go out and buy more plastic

 

[Technohic]

Are you talking about endurance sports athletes compared to disc golf? It is completely apples and oranges, and of course top athletes probably all have some natural talent so there probably is little difference to them.

Lots of swimmers train as hard as Phelps their entire life, but they are not even going to go to the olympics. Of course the other guys in the olympics are not going to be far off on talent; they also made the olympics.

 

[craftsman]

Lol. So if I practice enough I can outswim mikey felps?!hahaha

I throw comets and rocs. I was using wasps instead of rocs. Replacing the wasps has led to more consistancy due to the simillar speed.