United States disc golf championships

[Harold Duvall]

Hey are the people who had their stream dropped going to get their money back? If not, don't ever expect to get any $$ out of me for this event.

Hi Dave,

We're still trying to figure out what is a reasonable. I understand this will cost us some considerable support, and I take that very seriously. We will try to earn that support back over time because we want to continue to improve the USDGC and all the events around the Championship.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

For me personally, watching Jomez is tantalizing because they're doing something I love to do myself, and at one time, I was a few strokes away from being a few strokes away from almost being that caliber. Sort of. That could've been ME, I think to myself (I've only lost by one stroke at a C-tier to a guy who finished in the top 20 at worlds, and I've been on a future world champ's card in the second round of the Am-1 side of DGLO, etc.). That could be MY son someday, a current 85-pound kid in 6th grade who has shot a 934-rated round and drives 350' and beats probably over half the grown men at league night. It's at least a somewhat feasible thought.

Yes, I know a ton of you here can say the same thing about our amateur Disc Golf careers, but there aren't very many MLB fans who can say they pitched to a future MLB shortstop in high school and got him out once or an NFL fan who successfully blocked a future starting NFL linebacker from making an open field tackle or something to that effect. Almost none of them are watching the world series and reasonably thinking, "Yeah, that was kind of almost ME."

What percentage of Disc Golf video and/or PPV viewers are (or were) actually decent players themselves? Most of them? Half of them? A quarter of them? I don't really even know but I'd bet it's way, way more significant than in the case of the big sports. At least currently. What are the odds it'll continue to blow up and be on par with something like tennis or ball golf someday? If so, then yeah, I could see live PPV being a feasible thing. We wouldn't need bonkers NFL-level enthusiasm to wallow in decent glory, especially when a lot of us remember, not that long ago, being asked several times, "are those deer feeders or what?"

 

[Steve West]

Performance Tracks for the top ten highest rated and the top ten highest finishers.

USDGC

Spoiler

TPWDGC

Spoiler

 

[nothinbuttree]

Given how mental a game DG can be, I wonder if pros actually use these or similar graphs to help draw attention to where in tournaments they are playing their best, and not so much. I have noticed trends for certain players this year, like player A starts hot, player B makes furious comebacks, etc. Lots of variables at play--travel fatigue, keeping strong focus for 4 days, physical fatigue, on-camera stress perhaps, or even having certain players on your card. Seeing these intangibles in print like this would be pretty helpful I think.

One thing I noticed is mid round 3 Kyle must have had a real bad couple holes, but instead of folding, his track went straight up the rest of the tourney until the last few holes, where birdies are harder to get anyway. His mental game has really impressed me, I think he will be as good as he wants to be.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Hi - Thanks so much for reaching out to report the issues you encountered while watching the USDGC livestream over the past two days. I am, again, so sorry that we didn't deliver an experience up to your or our expectations. We have continued to work ceaselessly to understand why the issues occurred and let you know what we are doing to both (1) resolve it with you and (2) ensure that it doesn't happen again.


I am upset that these issues happened at all and our entire team is bitterly disappointed as well. I have been able to respond to dozens of your emails directly and through those discussions, I understand how these issues have created disappointment, frustration, and anger to everyone who was affected. Today, I am writing to the remaining group of affected viewers as a whole in order to ensure I get this group more information and a resolution in a timely manner. I wish I could continue to respond to each message one-by-one, but I do not want to delay any longer.


We have met with our video broadcast partner, Vimeo, and confirmed that the issues at the end of the round stemmed from a security feature they put in place which was inadvertently triggered. This was, clearly, not supposed to happen. Vimeo has provided a fix for the feature to ensure a similar outcome does not take place in the future, among other upgrades they are working on for us. Additionally, we have upgraded our redundancy protections in the DGN Milwaukee Studio, which will be in place for the Tour Championship to ensure that any types of unexpected outages will have minimal effect on the livestream.


In order to thank you for replying and reporting your issues with the livestream, as well as an acknowledgement of those issues, I would like to offer you a $20 gift code to the DGPT Online Pro Shop. Here's the code:


$20 Gift Code: -


This discount can be applied at checkout and is applicable to all products in the DGPT Pro Shop. This is a one time use code, and it's good through the end of 2021. We've emailed all PPV viewers of the USDGC to find everyone who was affected but if you know of anyone who hasn't gotten our messages, please encourage them to reach out to us by emailing [email protected].


We have read enough replies to know that while the issues were widespread, they resulted in many different experiences. If you feel that your issues have not been addressed to your satisfaction, please reply to this email. We're here to listen, learn, and continue to improve DGN as well as your experience as a dedicated disc golf fan.


We will continue to work methodically to address and upgrade all facets of our broadcast to achieve better and more reliable results. On behalf of our entire Disc Golf Network team, thank you for your feedback.


Best,


Jeff Spring
CEO & Director
Disc Golf Pro Tour

Yeah, ok.... I wrote them that living in Finland the 20$ would go to shipping alone pretty much and could I have a DGN coupon (for now or next year) instead, since 1) its cheaper than 20 bucks to them and 2) its more of the type of service I paid for and was left wanting

 

[davetherocketguy]

Yeah, ok.... I wrote them that living in Finland the 20$ would go to shipping alone pretty much and could I have a DGN coupon (for now or next year) instead, since 1) its cheaper than 20 bucks to them and 2) its more of the type of service I paid for and was left wanting

Yeah that's a disappointing refund…

 

[oldmandiscer]

For me personally, watching Jomez is tantalizing because they're doing something I love to do myself, and at one time, I was a few strokes away from being a few strokes away from almost being that caliber. Sort of. That could've been ME, I think to myself (I've only lost by one stroke at a C-tier to a guy who finished in the top 20 at worlds, and I've been on a future world champ's card in the second round of the Am-1 side of DGLO, etc.). That could be MY son someday, a current 85-pound kid in 6th grade who has shot a 934-rated round and drives 350' and beats probably over half the grown men at league night. It's at least a somewhat feasible thought.

Yes, I know a ton of you here can say the same thing about our amateur Disc Golf careers, but there aren't very many MLB fans who can say they pitched to a future MLB shortstop in high school and got him out once or an NFL fan who successfully blocked a future starting NFL linebacker from making an open field tackle or something to that effect. Almost none of them are watching the world series and reasonably thinking, "Yeah, that was kind of almost ME."

What percentage of Disc Golf video and/or PPV viewers are (or were) actually decent players themselves? Most of them? Half of them? A quarter of them? I don't really even know but I'd bet it's way, way more significant than in the case of the big sports. At least currently. What are the odds it'll continue to blow up and be on par with something like tennis or ball golf someday? If so, then yeah, I could see live PPV being a feasible thing. We wouldn't need bonkers NFL-level enthusiasm to wallow in decent glory, especially when a lot of us remember, not that long ago, being asked several times, "are those deer feeders or what?"

Getting non disc golfers to watch disc golf is a very long ways away. It still feels like going PPV is shrinking the sport to me.

Along with the bad publicity DGN and Innova got from it, I don't see how it makes much sense. Wouldn't you want to get as many eyeballs as possible on the event you are putting for marketing purposes, versus the least possible?

The only round this year I watched live was the last round of Worlds. I don't have the time or patience to sit through a 3-4 hour round when I can watch it in 45 minutes the next day edited and higher quality from Jomez or the others.

 

[ru4por]

Yeah that's a disappointing refund…

Pretty standard refund in business. Merchandise credit. That way the loss is only the cost of merch, not the entire amount. Looks better on paper than is does on their bottom line.

Kilgus could not have done any better. :|

 

[uncle pennybags]

Performance Tracks for the top ten highest rated and the top ten highest finishers.

TPWDGC

Spoiler

Wow. That track for PP. I know you guys were talking about it, but seeing the data like that is...wow.

 

[dehaas]

A merchandise credit is definitely the route that most businesses go first before offering cash refunds.

Honest question for those clamoring for refunds: How much cash back would make you feel like they had made the situation right? No doubt it came at the worst time possible, but a full refund seems like a bit much to me. I'd say something like $5-10?

Instead of a cash refund of $5-10 I'd rather have the $20 merchandise credit…which is basically a free disc. I know most of us probably have way too much plastic and aren't really interested in adding more to the backup box.

I'm not saying $5-10 has no value…I'd definitely stop and pick it up if I saw it laying on the ground. I'm more saying that getting that amount of cash back from them vs my choice in an almost free disc (probably have to come a couple bucks out of pocket to cover shipping) the disc comes across to me as a more substantial value. No doubt though the cost of shipping outside the country kills the deal for the international viewers.

Personally I don't think a full refund is necessary, and if it were to happen would more than likely be a large financial hit for the DGPT. Are we really trying to sink that ship?

In all honesty, I think what would be a good PR move for Innova/DGPT and let those impacted feel like their concerns were addressed would be a specialty stamp on a disc and send those out to those impacted. Let the flippers flip them if their concern is getting their money back.

 

[Flick Maniac]

I got an answer to my email, and got a month on DGN instead. I'm good. Ready to move past this debacle. Come 2022 I am pretty sure I'll be a customer again.

 

[araytx]

I love the Facebook criticisms of people who refuse to pay the $25 PPV. I am one of those people. I refuse not because I am "cheap" or don't want to see the sport grow. I value my money more than that plus I just don't have 3 hours per day to carve out to watch a bunch of dg when I have to work. And if I don't have to work I'd rather be playing DG for real than watching it on the tube. Sure, I pay A LOT more than that for all my streaming services at home but the content/dollar value for those far exceeds the $25 Innova wants.

Oh well...their loss. I wish them best of luck in this overpriced endeavor.

That response sounds like you wouldn't be watching it anyway -- Whether free or PPV. If you don't have 3 hours to carve out to watch DG, and if when you do get that time you'll choose playing over watching, then I don't think the question is for people like you? The question is for people in different circumstances... Am I right about that?

 

[tahoe]

It's the courses stupid...

Live ball golf coverage is the model. It's been around for decades. It works. Millions of non-golfers (or very occasional golfers) are drawn to it. Why? Well there's a big and coordinated and experienced production crew that has commentators and cameras from various angles covering multiple cards/groups. They can pick angles, replay shots, moments, reactions, slow-mo, all on the spot... It can be better than being at the event. ...so and so is making moves from the 4th card... Are the leaders aware? Is it changing strategy? Risk Reward decisions? Post production just can't be the same with all these layers in real time...

Even just a decade ago the cost to produce this kind of coverage was totally prohibitive for disc golf. But today technology is making it much more accessible to a much lower budget. Yeah they're making blunders and have some poor pr and customer relations, but it's only going to keep getting better as they learn from mistakes.

From my perspective the real issue that doesn't get attention on this subject is the courses themselves! A huge part of attracting viewership for ball golf events is the beauty, setting, history and design of the courses. Too many disc golf courses that host premier events are located on multi-million dollar landscapes designed for other purposes; university campuses, public parks and ball golf courses. It's blatantly obvious to viewers, especially curious fans we'd like to capture who are not avid disc golfers. It screams "this sport ain't legit".

Now let me qualify... DG got where it is from a lot of DIY, low budget courses, as well as courses that utilize existing developed landscapes, like USDGC in Rock Hill.... Tons of history and evolution there that tells a story! And so much work and thoughtful design to make tournament play for the best of the best engaging... They have even taken big strides to address the impact on the landscape, compaction and erosion (See latest DiscGolfer Mag article which highlights hole 18).

But the future is dedicated courses in beautiful landscapes, artfully designed and impeccably manicured (not with turf and fertilizers like ball golf). Maple Hill is a pretty good example of a premier venue that has continually improved over the years with course legibility, beauty and legitimacy, through mulching, terracing, tee areas, trails, etc....

Live coverage is an important piece for 'going mainstream' and appealing to a broader audience. More attractive courses are critical for this. The question is, should dg go mainstream or is it better suited to remain and be perceived as an alternative lifestyle sport? I'm sure the pro players would love the financial rewards. But would it change the culture for the worse?

 

[glassila]

I got an answer to my email, and got a month on DGN instead. I'm good. Ready to move past this debacle. Come 2022 I am pretty sure I'll be a customer again.

Did you mean you would be DGN monthly customer again or that you would purchase the USDGC $25 PPV again? or both?
Just curious.
Personally, I do the monthly DGN for about 4 months, but not the PPV.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

That response sounds like you wouldn't be watching it anyway -- Whether free or PPV. If you don't have 3 hours to carve out to watch DG, and if when you do get that time you'll choose playing over watching, then I don't think the question is for people like you? The question is for people in different circumstances... Am I right about that?

If he's like me, he rarely has 3 consecutive hours to devote to sedentarily sitting and watching this, all at once, especially when it's happening at a specific time live.

I wanted to see if there were post-production videos for this year's USDGC and I would've watched them spread out over the course of the next week or two with my son when we could find time, but just by doing that search, the results were spoiled for me. And from what I gather, there isn't a series of smaller videos available anyway. I think? I still don't know.

It sucks that this is our national championship. Sorry to be so negative.

 

[txmxer]

If he's like me, he rarely has 3 consecutive hours to devote to sedentarily sitting and watching this, all at once, especially when it's happening at a specific time live.

I wanted to see if there were post-production videos for this year's USDGC and I would've watched them spread out over the course of the next week or two with my son when we could find time, but just by doing that search, the results were spoiled for me. And from what I gather, there isn't a series of smaller videos available anyway. I think? I still don't know.

It sucks that this is our national championship. Sorry to be so negative.

The short answer is yes, there are post production videos of the lead card available on DGN for those that did PPV. Apparently, they will be available to the DGN subscribers after 30 days (?)

I watched intermittently the first two days and tried to watch Friday, but had some specific work stuff and just couldn't get anything done with it playing, so turned it off. I did watch the post pro stuff on Saturday before the live event. Knowing that day 3 was truly a moving day really impacted my interest in the lead card post pro for day 3.

On Saturday, knowing that I had PPV'd the event and had not really watched any of the coverage closely, I felt obligated to try and sit down and give the last round a watch. That was about the time the first interruption came (holes 3/4 apparently). Not knowing the cause of the interruption and having had issues with my service recently, I went through the restart on my FireTV and still got the spinning wheel of no signal. Checked by internet speed and found it lacking. Spent the next 30 minutes to an hour talking to tech support and getting an appointment for a tech to come out sometime later. But, the signal had come back and I could watch once again. I had a few lag moments from my service, but overall the coverage/broadcast was good.

Then came 18 and the playoff to come and the spinning wheel. Cycle everything, check my service connection, then decide to try the cell phone and see if I can watch that way. Cell comes through about the same time as the FireTV and I'm watching the replay of PMB's winning putt with no idea what happened to KK, but obviously, Paul won it on hole 1 of the playoff.

Ultimately, I agree with you. I can't commit to sitting and watching 4 hours of a live event. I've been using a DVR to watch sports since TIVO first came in the '90s.

If I can't DVR it, I end up not watching most of an event.

 

[Ahildy13]

Live ball golf coverage is the model. It's been around for decades. It works. Millions of non-golfers (or very occasional golfers) are drawn to it.

I'm convinced 75% of PGA Tour coverage is "watched" on corner TVs in Country Club Bars and Retirement communities.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Did you mean you would be DGN monthly customer again or that you would purchase the USDGC $25 PPV again? or both?
Just curious.
Personally, I do the monthly DGN for about 4 months, but not the PPV.

USDGC will always draw me. Unless they hike up the price or something.

If the DGPT final rounds werent live on Youtube I might be more interested in a DGN subscription too. I did have it this year for a certain 30-day period, in which you could fit 4 big tournaments into one payment. Not really interested in any archived stuff or non-elite level live disc golf that much.

 

[vadisc]

Pretty disappointing not to have post production available, I'd actually be willing to pay $15-20 for that. I won't however pay for live coverage and watch 3+ hr rounds at a pretty boring and ugly course (great event though). I've been following this tournament since 2000 and this year was the most disappointing coverage in the history of the event, imo.

 

[Ryan P.]

Pretty disappointing not to have post production available, I'd actually be willing to pay $15-20 for that. I won't however pay for live coverage and watch 3+ hr rounds at a pretty boring and ugly course (great event though). I've been following this tournament since 2000 and this year was the most disappointing coverage in the history of the event, imo.

Post-pro is available, you can pay for the DGN PPV and get it. It's produced by DGN, but has a dedicated commentary team (i.e. it isn't just snippets from the final round broadcast, it's the entire lead card plus the shots that matter down the stretch, with a commentary team talking over the post-produced video just like all the YouTube companies do it.

The question is, now that you know about it, will you do what you said and pay for it?