What % of Disc Golfers Cheat

[iacas]

I don't care about casual rounds, or leagues where tap-ins are good if you can reach out and brush the chains.

I'm talking about tournament (even C-Tier) rounds where disc golfers cheat.

What percentage of your fellow disc golfers would you say cheat?

P.S. I looked quickly for an existing thread. Saw one about illuminating the basket with a flashlight… but little else.

 

[thrembo]

I have caught people either straight up cheating or being real stupid in a tournament before. Either way you get the strokes or DQ'd. I believe that it is a small percentage of us that do it though.

 

[tampabay]

I voted 11-30% but honestly, it seems like it's about every other card in a tourney that someone will pencil whip, usually be under reporting scores on bad holes.

But it's more in the 2-10% vibe of it's usually the same people... I'd probably say 10-20% if that were an option.

 

[DavidSauls]

Hard to answer without knowing where to draw the line on "cheating".

Pencil-whipping or moving a disc that's barely OB? Only a small percentage that I've seen, though if they thought they could get away with it, I'll bet it would be a lot more.

Stance and time violations, where they push the rule, trusting that the opponents who could call them, won't?

Rules violations that don't affect scores, like unmarked discs in the bag?

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

I don't care about casual rounds, or leagues where tap-ins are good if you can reach out and brush the chains.

I'm talking about tournament (even C-Tier) rounds where disc golfers cheat.

What percentage of your fellow disc golfers would you say cheat?

P.S. I looked quickly for an existing thread. Saw one about illuminating the basket with a flashlight… but little else.

Why would a league or bag tag round be any different? I'd say that rules integrity is of primary importance. The only way to compete fairly is for everyone to be playing to the same set of rules.

I agree that the tap in putts that you let the closest player pickup for you are a given during casual rounds but otherwise I'm always watching for foot faults, scorekeeping, OB, etc.

 

[tampabay]

Why would a league or bag tag round be any different? I'd say that rules integrity is of primary importance. The only way to compete fairly is for everyone to be playing to the same set of rules.

I agree that the tap in putts that you let the closest player pickup for you are a given during casual rounds but otherwise I'm always watching for foot faults, scorekeeping, OB, etc.

League and bag tag aren't sanctioned events with an explicit set of rules. It's pretty hard to enforce rules when the rules applied end up being some bastard child of the actual rules and the regional rules that are enforced.

I agree with Iacas that it should only matter in sanctioned events where there is a set of rules everyone is agreeing to follow

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Hard to answer without knowing where to draw the line on "cheating".

i think it would be pretty obvious if a player is cheating. Even if the advantage gained seems minimal or doesn't impact scoring the player is still being dishonest.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

i think it would be pretty obvious if a player is cheating. Even if the advantage gained seems minimal or doesn't impact scoring the player is still being dishonest.

Throwing an unmarked disc during a casual round? Drinking beer? These are rules during a PDGA event but we let them slide otherwise, right?

But foot faults, moving your lie away from a gnarly thorn bush, or lying about your score are the ones I look for all the time.

 

[colucc43]

Unfortunately I ran into people cheating regularly in the past year. Somewhere around 20% of players seems about right.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Any round that involves awarding money or prizes(including bag tags) should follow a set of rules.

 

[roggenb3]

If unintentional foot faults are cheating, its most people. Ive seen probably hundreds of instances of people missing their lie on a fairway run up. I think Im pretty good at hitting my spot, but Im sure Ive done it myself.

There are other rules I see broken quite a bit, like people having a sticker or glow tape on their disc. Or looking for a disc for more than 3 minutes.

But as far as intentionally trying to cheat, like pencil whipping, or moving a disc and hoping no one saw, Ive only seen a handful of instances in my 3 years playing tournaments.

 

[DavidSauls]

i think it would be pretty obvious if a player is cheating. Even if the advantage gained seems minimal or doesn't impact scoring the player is still being dishonest.

I asked that in relation to the thread question.

This is clearly an offshoot of another thread, so I'm asking what level of cheating the O.P. is asking us about.

If the level is, "Any rules violation of any sort that the player is aware of, but doesn't call on himself", then the answer is, a pretty high percentage. I don't think that's where iacas wants to take this.

If the level is, "Something a player thinks he might get away with, likely to improve his score", it's a much smaller number.

 

[tampabay]

If unintentional foot faults are cheating, its most people. Ive seen probably hundreds of instances of people missing their lie on a fairway run up. I think Im pretty good at hitting my spot, but Im sure Ive done it myself.

There are other rules I see broken quite a bit, like people having a sticker or glow tape on their disc. Or looking for a disc for more than 3 minutes.

But as far as intentionally trying to cheat, like pencil whipping, or moving a disc and hoping no one saw, Ive only seen a handful of instances in my 3 years playing tournaments.

I think of foot faults like I do fouls in basketball. There are penalties in place for the action that are intended to be enforced. If someone keeps foot faulting and people keep calling them, no advantage gained.

As far as calling 3 minutes, I call people on that all the time. I feel bad but it's in the rules for a reason.

I think of cheating like the latter category you mentioned. Lots of pencil whipping, looooooots. Maybe region/division play a factor in that. Occasional moving of a disc. the old trick of putting down another disc (as though marking their lie with a disc) then marking disc that they placed with a mini, things like that.

 

[DavidSauls]

The other variable is asking not just how many cheat, but how many would cheat if we didn't share scorekeeping and crosscheck scores, or require that a disc close to O.B. not be moved until the group has had a chance to check it, or similar instances. It's no accident that the rules offer, and sometimes require, monitoring by opponents, and aren't completely on the honor system. Even if most disc golfers are honest.

 

[thrembo]

I would define "cheating" during a tournament round as deliberately writing down the wrong score on a card or doing something intentionally to better affect your score, such as teeing off from the wrong tee pad. That's why everyone in your group in a tournament round should be paying very close attention to the scores, and to what other players are doing and to what the TD says before you head out. Most instances can be quickly resolved within the group, at least at the lower AM levels. I don't play with the pro players during a tournament generally, but I guess that they take the rules more serious as they are playing for money.

 

[Reniger]

I played a tournament this summer with a kid who is known locally. Good kid, but doesn't know/doesn't care about the rules. He'd move his lie, walk in front of other players throwing, talk constantly, his phone actually rang as the leader on our card was teeing off, almost every putt in the circle was a falling putt, he even grabbed a basket as he was trying to hike over a pyramid basket while another player was putting, causing the basket to shift and the other player's putt hit the top lip of the cage. Granted, that player never should have putt while this kid was walking right next to the basket, but he was getting frustrated and he putt anyway. Moreover, the kid in question was caught twice in one round "forgetting" how many throws he had on a hole and trying to lower his score. By the end of the round he'd gotten 2 falling putt violations and 2 courtesy violations. Needless to say, the whole card of 5 was very upset. He'd been told rules politely at first, figuring he didn't know, then was given warnings, then finally violation strokes. (which he threw a fit over and protested) End of the round, he was reported to the TD, who said that this kid was in his leagues and club and that everyone knew that he didn't know or pay attention to rules and laughed it off. He even ended up taking the four violation strokes off the kid's score. I was livid. I mean, it's only a C-Tier AM2, but it was bad enough for a player to behave that way. I understand not knowing rules, but to be informed, continually violate, then get upset when reprimanded is ridiculous. The thing that REALLY got me was that the TD laughed it off and adjusted the kid's score. Never playing an event hosted by that group again.

TL;DR - Player violated rules and TD laughed it off and removed violation strokes from player's score because they were friends in the same leagues/club. :wall:

 

[tampabay]

I played a tournament this summer with a kid who is known locally. Good kid, but doesn't know/doesn't care about the rules. He'd move his lie, walk in front of other players throwing, talk constantly, his phone actually rang as the leader on our card was teeing off, almost every putt in the circle was a falling putt, he even grabbed a basket as he was trying to hike over a pyramid basket while another player was putting, causing the basket to shift and the other player's putt hit the top lip of the cage. Granted, that player never should have putt while this kid was walking right next to the basket, but he was getting frustrated and he putt anyway. Moreover, the kid in question was caught twice in one round "forgetting" how many throws he had on a hole and trying to lower his score. By the end of the round he'd gotten 2 falling putt violations and 2 courtesy violations. Needless to say, the whole card of 5 was very upset. He'd been told rules politely at first, figuring he didn't know, then was given warnings, then finally violation strokes. (which he threw a fit over and protested) End of the round, he was reported to the TD, who said that this kid was in his leagues and club and that everyone knew that he didn't know or pay attention to rules and laughed it off. He even ended up taking the four violation strokes off the kid's score. I was livid. I mean, it's only a C-Tier AM2, but it was bad enough for a player to behave that way. I understand not knowing rules, but to be informed, continually violate, then get upset when reprimanded is ridiculous. The thing that REALLY got me was that the TD laughed it off and adjusted the kid's score. Never playing an event hosted by that group again.

TL;DR - Player violated rules and TD laughed it off and removed violation strokes from player's score because they were friends in the same leagues/club. :wall:

That TD should be reported. That is unacceptable and frustrating.

 

[thrembo]

TL;DR - Player violated rules and TD laughed it off and removed violation strokes from player's score because they were friends in the same leagues/club. :wall:

Nice rant. Agree 100%. Wouldn't want to play in that tournament either.

 

[Reniger]

That TD should be reported. That is unacceptable and frustrating.

I thought about reporting him, however, he is truly a great guy who does a lot for local courses, tournaments, and helps run clinics and kids events. I don't wish any ill harm to him, but I won't participate in his events for a while because of his overlooking issues because of acquaintance. I'm annoyed, but at the end of the day, he's still a very positive force for the local scene.

Nice rant.

lol. Thanks.

 

[tampabay]

I thought about reporting him, however, he is truly a great guy who does a lot for local courses, tournaments, and helps run clinics and kids events. I don't wish any ill harm to him, but I won't participate in his events for a while because of his overlooking issues because of acquaintance. I'm annoyed, but at the end of the day, he's still a very positive force for the local scene.

Have you thought about addressing it with him again?