What % of Disc Golfers Cheat

[lyleoross]

Pretty much everyone, the rule book is full of silliness that is ignored for speed of play/inconsequential to scoring issues. I would say at least 90% of people putt out of turn and over 50% throw out of turn. Unmarked discs, missed run-ups, barely illegal stance violations, etc.

Throwing out of turn isn't illegal. You only have to ask nicely.

 

[lyleoross]

I've pointed out the smoking thing several times in tournaments. If you want to do it, go play casual. Same with cigarettes. Sorry if you think I'm a douche, but part of the reason I enter sanctioned tournaments instead of non-sanctioned is to get away from that nonsense in a competitive atmosphere.

I'd love to crack a few beers during a tourney round, but I don't. It's called self-control.

I'm definitely playing with you! Like the keep your smokin' to yourself tude. And no, I don't think you're a duche for not wanting to play in an ashtray.

Steve Martin in response to someone asking to smoke on a plane - "sure, as long as you don't mind if I fart."

 

[biscoe]

I feel like your putt and throw out of turn numbers are quite high, at least around here.

The whole "marking of discs" thing is silly to me. How often will two people be throwing the same disc, in the same color, with the same stamp, on the same hole, and end up close enough to each other to have any instance of confusion? Even then, nearly every disc will have some sort of distinguishing feature, be it through wear or otherwise.

I've been on exactly one card where a guy had the same disc/color combination I had...but mine had some red spots on it. Maybe in 1992, when there were not nearly as many discs out there, could this have been a problem.

i have seen professional players play the wrong disc more than once. when ce plastic first came out a lot of people had very similar red discs.

 

[Stardoggy]

i have seen professional players play the wrong disc more than once. when ce plastic first came out a lot of people had very similar red discs.

I'm not talking about the CE era, when the disc selections were much more condensed. I'm talking about now.

 

[lyleoross]

I'm not talking about the CE era, when the disc selections were much more condensed. I'm talking about now.

In terms of video evidence, once in the last ten years. Ricky, how could you? Star Doggy is correct, it's a minor issue. That said, players "should" do it to avoid confusion. The PDGA recognizes that it's a minor issue, that's why they've made the penalty a warning. You only ever call it if a problem arises.

 

[lyleoross]

Now peeing during a round, at least peeing for too long, that's a problem. Depends Paul, Depends.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Sadly, I have played in tournament rounds where players cheated. However, I have also been in recent discussions where the "recent changes" in the rules were cited in general discussion about what kind of things are now allowed - but really aren't. There is a pervasive lack of knowledge of the rules by many who compete regularly in tournaments. Does this lead to cheating, I can't say that.

I have also seen many infractions that weren't called by anyone. In Adv Grandmasters in my area you are as likely to get struck by lightning as have an accidental foot fault of falling putt called on you.

 

[Lazerface]

Crazy how high some of the % are from people on this forum. My gut when I saw it was 1 - 5% of actual deliberate cheating, but that is far from the consensus it seems.

I just assume people are not that pathetic.

I think pencil whipping is probably the worst thing you could do. When I'm playing a tournament I ALWAYS know what everyone took on the hole. I do this to prevent pencil whipping. I also politely ask the score keeper to call out names and scores, including themselves to keep everything honest if they are not already. I have had to correct someone when they have a blow up hole about a dozen or so times in my 8 or so years of playing. I catch a vibe and typically feel like I know if it was a deliberate whipping attempt, or someone honestly lost their head enough to not remember how many throws - I have yet to do that in my disc golf life. Bottom line as long as the card reads correct, I'm happy and sometimes I learn the true character of someone out on the course. If multiple OB shots are involved and you loose your head on a hole it can be legitimately difficult to add up a score. When those kind of things are happening I typically pay close attention and speak to a card mate to make sure we are on the same page before scores are announced - so I'm not the "guy" who has to correct him.

Reading this makes me a bit paranoid though - where the heck do you all play disc golf???? With that said, I play in the Open division and I have certainly observed a lot of falling putts in the rec division over the years. That is where you find the first timers and in my experience if the rules are clarified cordially by card mates it's typically not met with any type of adversity from the offender.

I'm not a rules Nazi, although we should probably all be, since it would make calling out your card mate far less Taboo when something does occur. Disc Golf tends to have that "chill dude" culture that makes calling a violation awkward at times. I don't really give a **** about that though.

* The 3 min rule - I feel like this rule is in place for speed of play. I always keep an eye on the previous hole and will let a player search beyond the 3 minute mark if I genuinely believe it will not cause a speed of play issue. There can certainly be a snow ball effect with this that will affect many players beyond a single group, so it is an important rule, but it's also the WORST way to loose strokes and I hate to put it on someone. There is also the fact that you are icing your card mates to some degree, but again, I make a judgment call on these. Also, everyone on the card MUST be actively looking before 3 min begins - not sure if that's part of the rule or just my opinion.

*Foot Faults - Basically, if it's an open field and I feel like a player is making every effort to plant properly, and it is not a chronic problem, I have ignored many of foot faults. Not saying it's right, but we play on weird terrain and it happens to even the best players. On the contrary, if the lie is somewhat obstructed and the player gets a distinct advantage with a foot fault I will call it. I will of course call anyone who is foot faulting on the regular.

*Backing into a lie - I just looked in the rule book and did not locate it but I thought there was a rule on addressing you lie with "minimum" impact on the surroundings or something to that degree. This is kind of a funny one and I think even the most honest people are guilty of addressing a lie in the thicket like a rhinoceros from time to time. Or stomping there way through some prairie grass on there way in. If there is no actual grabbing or moving of branches, etc I tend not to call this one. My local players and I kind of joke around about it and we will address it up front before someone makes there way in - "Dude, don't go trampling in there now..."

Part of competition is knowing how to operate within the rules, and sometimes that means really close to the "line". You see it in every sport. Creatively addressing a lie in disc golf falls under this sort of rules dance as well as making an argument your are in bounds, given the benefit goes to the player. I have had many "touching that blade of grass" conversations when OB lines are not clearly marked. I hate that one because to me everyone can draw an imaginary line in their head and it's pretty damn obvious when someone is OB even if the line is marked poorly.

 

[Lazerface]

I feel like your putt and throw out of turn numbers are quite high, at least around here.

The whole "marking of discs" thing is silly to me. How often will two people be throwing the same disc, in the same color, with the same stamp, on the same hole, and end up close enough to each other to have any instance of confusion? Even then, nearly every disc will have some sort of distinguishing feature, be it through wear or otherwise.

I've been on exactly one card where a guy had the same disc/color combination I had...but mine had some red spots on it. Maybe in 1992, when there were not nearly as many discs out there, could this have been a problem.

This actually happened to me at my first ever PDGA tournament. I was playing ADV with a couple local guys who were super serious about it. I was a bit nervous about the rules so I was very careful the whole round. Honestly, I was just catching a bad vibe because I was playing much better than these guys and I felt like they resented me due to my newb status. On maybe the 2nd to last whole my white wizard and another guys were both upside down under the basket. I, like a moron, walked up with my mini only, marked one, and set it in the basket without even looking at it. I then realized that it was the other guys putter. I looked back at them and explained what happened as my actual putter lay under the basket. These guys ganged up on my young ass and were all like "Man I hate to do it, but that's a 2 stroke penalty" - which I think is correct (moving another's disc and essentially taking an extra stoke with the set in) . They so obviously LOVED to do it. I broke the rules, but these were clean up sets ins - literally inches from the pole. I got a 2 stroke penalty for being absent minded, and learned my lesson - but there is no way I would ever call someone on that as the violation has absolutely no affect on the round score(s). In some way I'm part of the "problem" I suppose.

 

[hellbound]

Lazerface nailed it on all his points.

Do I feel some people cheat yes biggest things I would have to say are pencil whipping. Friend caught one last weekend before the card got turned in. It was nothing more then making sure he wrote the right score down.

Biggest thing I see is the upshots in hard to reach places. people trying to sneak out just a little more room. Is it cheating or just not checking stance? lack of rules knowledge? Who knows. Always give the benefit of the doubt and inform them after the throw unless its a lead card battle int and above. Too many rec players are going in not understanding the rules so its more of a lesion then a cheat.

I voted 0-1% I hate not playing by the rules and give most people the benefit of the doubt if they are going to spend there hard earned money to play a weekend of disc golf. Now unsanctioned that a whole new can of worms.

 

[Jay Dub]

Lazerface nailed it on all his points.

Do I feel some people cheat yes biggest things I would have to say are pencil whipping. Friend caught one last weekend before the card got turned in. It was nothing more then making sure he wrote the right score down.

Biggest thing I see is the upshots in hard to reach places. people trying to sneak out just a little more room. Is it cheating or just not checking stance? lack of rules knowledge? Who knows. Always give the benefit of the doubt and inform them after the throw unless its a lead card battle int and above. Too many rec players are going in not understanding the rules so its more of a lesion then a cheat.

I voted 0-1% I hate not playing by the rules and give most people the benefit of the doubt if they are going to spend there hard earned money to play a weekend of disc golf. Now unsanctioned that a whole new can of worms.

It's been my experience that people who break the rules during unsanctioned events normally do it all the time.
I'd find it hard to believe that someone who consistently does not play by the rules in their casual or unsanctioned rounds change their game when it comes time for sanctioned events.

 

[hellbound]

Jay Dub- I can agree on that with you but my experience is that most cheaters in the casual rounds will not play a PDGA event. The whole not playing for cash turns them off.

 

[Halcón]

The most successful disc golfer ever cheats on a consistent basis. Why shouldn't everyone else?

 

[lyleoross]

The most successful disc golfer ever cheats on a consistent basis. Why shouldn't everyone else?

Do tell. The sad thing is I'd be hard pressed to disagree. But I'd definitely note that it's not of the stroke shaving variety IMHO.

 

[DanJon]

The most successful disc golfer ever cheats on a consistent basis. Why shouldn't everyone else?

KC eh? So what is your definition of cheating?

Not sticking up for him, I just think we are operating on different wavelengths in this thread when it comes down to what cheating actually is.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Looking at it this way: Assuming you have a full turnout for an event capped at 72 players, I have a hard time believing 7 of those players (10%) are cheating. Hence, I'd place it at under 10% for sanctioned events. That said, I think that relatively small percentage tend to be repeat offenders, and develop reputation locally that puts them under scrutiny.


I'm talking about true intent to cheat, rather than instances of not knowing or misinterpreting the rules, only to get called and stroked for it. For most people, the pain of taking those strokes in a sanctioned event is sufficient for them to learn how not to do what earned them the strokes. That person may not have followed the rules properly, but they're not what I'd call a "cheat."

 

[BogeyNoMore]

The most successful disc golfer ever cheats on a consistent basis. Why shouldn't everyone else?

OK, I'll bite. Please elaborate.
opcorn:

 

[jeffmonty]

If I were on that card I'd have a major problem with the TD removing the violation strokes for that kid, or anyone, in a sanctioned tournament. The kid earned all his strokes, legit and penalty strokes, so he should be awarded all of them -- or better yet, just DQ him to let him know that type of conduct won't be tolerated.

How is this kid ever going to change his behaviour if there are no consequences to his actions? Since the kid finished DFL I can kinda see the shrug by the TD, but he never should have removed the penalty strokes. What if the kid wasn't DFL? Someone else would have been punished instead of him.

I know one thing, anyone that gets the reputation of cheating, most specifically pencil whipping, is pretty much labeled for life. It's pretty hard to repair that kind of violation of trust. They're under a microscope after that.

 

[lyleoross]

BTW, one thing I really loved about this poll was how professionally it was done. I'm not being sarcastic. Pro pollsters typically have an agenda so they ask weighted answers to direct the respondents where they want them to be. That was done here, but I don't think it went the way the pollster wanted it to go. Darned respondents.

A neutral poll just asks an unweighted question with ranges.

Do you think there's cheating in sanctioned events? Yes No

If you think there's cheating at what level do think it occurs?

Below 1%
1 to 2%
Etc.

 

[Hampstead]

Locally, those who take certain liberties with their game are well known. Fortunately, there are only a couple of people that fit the bill. One guy is known for double or triple flipping his disc (when no mini is used), another guy loves to call foot faults but when you watch him, he foot faults on most throws.

Bottom line, those with that reputation get discussed in hushed whispers and most of us know better than to play casual or even skins rounds with those guys. Also, they get watched like a hawk in tournament play. Fortunately, they don't usually play sanctioned events.

On the plus side, it's only a couple of guys with that reputation and most people locally are pretty trustworthy.

If I'm playing a solo round, I will always play with integrity. I don't care if I'm keeping track of score or not. I try to play every throw of every round as if I was playing for real. Good habits and such.