I am baffled and need a concise explanation
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whats the difference between rec n novice
- Thread starter optidiscic
- Start date
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silliness
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
The difference is just the level of play. There are four levels of amateur play MA1, MA2, MA3, MA4. They are more commonly known with the names: Advanced, Intermediate, Recreational, Novice. There could be better names, but there is no consensus on what those could be. That's why I prefer to just refer to them as Am1, Am2, Am3, Am4.
or maybe some players really dont deserve to win and shouldnt be entitled to tourney play
Elitist much?
I see how that could come across that way. Now that you addressed that can you explain why there has to be four AM divisions?
mattc
* Ace Member *
Around here, you almost never see below Rec.
Novice is almost never offered.
Many tourneys often don't offer Rec.
Novice is almost never offered.
Many tourneys often don't offer Rec.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Last tournament I helped run:
MA1- 28
MA2- 33
MA3- 27
MA4- 17
Granted most people around here play in the lowest division they qualify for rather than in the lowest division their ego will allow them to.
MA1- 28
MA2- 33
MA3- 27
MA4- 17
Granted most people around here play in the lowest division they qualify for rather than in the lowest division their ego will allow them to.
There doesn't have to be four. There could be two. Or eight.
There could even be a single division for everyone, Pro & Amateur, veteran and beginner.
But the idea is to group players of reasonably similar skills together---not so much that everyone can win, but everyone is close enough in skill to reasonably compete and, if they play well, finish at least in the middle and therefore "cash". The rating ranges allow for this, more or less.
Whether 4 divisions is the right number, or the ratings breaks are in the right places, is debatable. But that's the concept.
jenb
* Ace Member *
One difference is 50 ratings points. The remaining differences depend on the area and the TD.
It's nice to see (seriously) that there are players who play where their rating allows them rather than letting ego or peer pressure push them to a higher division.
But if I'm not mistaken, the tournament you're talking about is a split day, split field event, right? Some divisions offered on Saturday, some on Sunday? I don't make that distinction to criticize at all, but to make a larger point.
Part of the reason I think people get all huffy and "elitist" about the number of divisions is because we so often hold all of these divisions in one event, and the events have a limited overall capacity. So at a filled event, every MA3 player registered is effectively one less spot for an MA2 or MA1. And who doesn't like larger divisions?
I think the end point will eventually be the same for us whether you're an advocate of fewer divisions or an advocate for the divisional structure we have (or perhaps think there's room for more). Eventually, we'll have enough demand in enough places for there to be tournaments that cater to a specific level of play instead of trying to cover them all in one. Essentially, each division will someday be populated enough to be its own standalone tournament.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Correct. That was a split day event (MPO/MA2/MA4 on Saturday, all others on Sunday). We do that so that we can accommodate more players.
Dana ran a one day event last Saturday. He had 12/18/19/15. (I think he sold out, but not ahead of time).
Dana ran a one day event last Saturday. He had 12/18/19/15. (I think he sold out, but not ahead of time).
WhiteyBear
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 878
There should be three levels in tournaments for amateurs.
Adv
Int
Beginner
Beginner is trophy only, Int is trophy and small prize, as is trophy and slight larger prize.
Fueling the payout for ANd only increases sand bagging.
Adv
Int
Beginner
Beginner is trophy only, Int is trophy and small prize, as is trophy and slight larger prize.
Fueling the payout for ANd only increases sand bagging.
tonyroberts
Par Member
Some players are never going to reach the MA1 or even MA2 level, yet if they enjoy competition, why should they not have a place to compete among players of similar skills? For that reason, the lower-level divisions are terrific. Some new players will improve and will graduate to higher-level divisions over time. That's great, too.
Some elite tournaments may not want to offer lower levels and may even require a certain rating for entrance. That's fine, too, as long as opportunities continue to exist for lower-level players. As JC says, down the road there may be enough demand for separate events for different levels.
Some elite tournaments may not want to offer lower levels and may even require a certain rating for entrance. That's fine, too, as long as opportunities continue to exist for lower-level players. As JC says, down the road there may be enough demand for separate events for different levels.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Most recent stats on how many active tournament players are at different rating levels: http://www.pdga.com/pdga-player-course-rating-system
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
We have been offering MA1-MA4 longer than anyone else and have not had any problems with sand bagging.
Try as hard as I can, I can't seem to get my rating over 900. I'm one of those who just might not make it to MA1. Time and various injuries are not on my side. I also work a ton, so finding time to actually practice is another issue. However, due to pressure from local players and here on DGCR I'm not really allowed to play my rating, because I've been playing for so many years.
Basically, I feel like Novice should be the only division that is non ratings protected. DG is still a small enough community that a TD should be able to make a judgment call on whether someone is truly a new player with little grasp of the game (I.e. A true novice) as opposed to someone like me who just sucks and wants to play, but respects the rules and just has a piss poor rating (I.e. rec)
But that's not how it is. In the end, all the difference is, is a few ratings points. Most TDs don't offer Novice (I've yet to see it) and many don't offer Rec either. Rec is for guys who such (me) or are on their way up (like the 12 year old who beat me at a tourney two years ago...by 5 throws) and Novice should be for beginners trying out tourneys.
Basically, I feel like Novice should be the only division that is non ratings protected. DG is still a small enough community that a TD should be able to make a judgment call on whether someone is truly a new player with little grasp of the game (I.e. A true novice) as opposed to someone like me who just sucks and wants to play, but respects the rules and just has a piss poor rating (I.e. rec)
But that's not how it is. In the end, all the difference is, is a few ratings points. Most TDs don't offer Novice (I've yet to see it) and many don't offer Rec either. Rec is for guys who such (me) or are on their way up (like the 12 year old who beat me at a tourney two years ago...by 5 throws) and Novice should be for beginners trying out tourneys.
The problem is all in the name.
MA4 should be for players whose skill level is far enough below MA3 that they can't compete. Even if they've been playing for 10 years. They can play with other MA4-level players.
Forget that they're called novices, and all is fine.
MA4 should be for players whose skill level is far enough below MA3 that they can't compete. Even if they've been playing for 10 years. They can play with other MA4-level players.
Forget that they're called novices, and all is fine.
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