Whose Fault Is It...?

[jmhoekst]

I'm fairly new to this site, so I apologize that this posting is in regards to a tournament from last summer. However, I still hear people talking about what happened even to this day, so I thought it would be worth posting to find out what all you fine people think.

Last summer I competed in a BYOP doubles event with a buddy. There was a fairly large turnout (> 35 teams) and many of the players were area pros or very skilled AMs. There were also several locals, many of them kids (12-14 yrs old). The TD for this event was a first-timer (a local radio station manager) so he did their best to draw the crowd. The event bragged over $1000 in donated items for CTP and raffle prizes. There was also a chance to win a free moped if you aced hole #18.

The TD wanted to please the DG crowd, so he let people choose their cards. Naturally the young kids were all on the same card. To sum up this story, EVERY CTP came back with one of the six kids as the CTP winner. That card went 6 for 6. Each of them won exactly one prize. These kids did have skills and were more than capable of getting a CTP, but we all knew most or all of them cheated, especially considering on some holes they would have to have landed within 12'' to win CTP.

This was brought to the attention of the TD prior to the awards given out, but he did nothing. Didn't even confront the kids. The veteran players were quite frustrated at the TD as well as the cheating kids.

Whose fault: the TD or the kids? If you were the TD, how would you have handled this situation?

 

[oddjob]

So is there any proof that the cheated? Unless someone saw their drives, not much you can do.

 

[jmhoekst]

So is there any proof that the cheated? Unless someone saw their drives, not much you can do.

No proof. So you're saying the TD had his hands tied? At the very least, I think he could have talked to the kids, and try to pressure them into "revealing" the truth.

 

[DSCJNKY]

I suppose it was the TD's fault since he let them play on the same card... that's why you mix people up.

Another issue could have been the idea that everyone was capable of winning every CTP... as opposed to having divisions (pro CTP, Am CTP, Kids CTP). If each division had 2 CTP's... then the kids could have only won 2 of them.

DSCJNKY

 

[Mr. America]

No proof. So you're saying the TD had his hands tied?

You pretty much answered your own question right here.

 

[cali]

ITT:

Someone's CTP shot got trumped by some Jr. Am and they're salty about it.


Just kidding, I've heard too many stories similar to this one. Kinda sucks that most of the Jr's need to have their rounds chaperoned.

Every tournament I've ever played has had at least one adult following and keeping score on a separate card.

 

[jmhoekst]

I suppose it was the TD's fault since he let them play on the same card... that's why you mix people up.

Another issue could have been the idea that everyone was capable of winning every CTP... as opposed to having divisions (pro CTP, Am CTP, Kids CTP). If each division had 2 CTP's... then the kids could have only won 2 of them.

DSCJNKY

Good point. Like I said, this was a n00b TD.

 

[scarpfish]

Leave people to behave on their honor and you'll find some of them don't behave honorably. This is especially true with youngsters.

 

[gkeberhart]

it happens everywhere at all levels unfortunately. I was playing in a non sanctioned tournament and I ended up on a card with my friends (TD randomly assigned the cards), we all shot really hot the first round (our card was 3 strokes ahead of the next place) and basically ended up on the top card for the second. One of the other players in our division went to the TD and said that we were cheating and that we didn't shoot that well; fortunately for us a guy from the card behind us that was in a different division whom none of us knew spoke up and said that we were throwing very well. People will do whatever they can to get an advantage or benefit themselves in any way. My friends and I were the only people from out of town and it just so happened that we ended up on the same card by chance from a random pick by the TD. The second round though we had the TD keeping score for us because of someone else and their cheating intentions. You just have to be careful with things like that.

 

[Brall]

sounds the cheating children really set their reputations in stone with that stunt. i hope everyone in leagues and local tourney's are now aware of them.

 

[Iberian_55]

As to the OP, I think it was the TD's error in judgment. IMO But this sort of sh!t can happen.
It is not fair to those with the 'Do the right thing' values.
If you suspect cheating, tell the TD or an official and I'm quite sure that questionable cards will be watched.

 

[Giv'r]

sounds the cheating children really set their reputations in stone with that stunt. i hope everyone in leagues and local tourney's are now aware of them.

This. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[snappyfingers]

TDs fault, but also the players.

If ya'll knew he was a total TD n00b, a dude from a radio station, then someone should have stepped up and given the dude some help.

If the TD wasn't just using DG as a promotional vehicle, and actually wanted to do something for the sport, then having a golfer give him good advice would be beneficial in the long run, especially if dude is planning on doing other events.

Was a local club involved at all? If so I'm surprised they didn't go over some basics with the dude before the tourney. If no club was involved, I'm still surprised that not one of the players didn't speak up before hand or even confirm with the TD that he knew what he was doing.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Following PDGA procedures by an experienced TD could have still resulted in the same scenario happening. Normally, Juniors are paired together. They likely wouldn't cheat on scores since they are competing against each other and ratings weren't at stake since it was doubles. So the CTPs were the only place cheating could have paid off, if in fact that happened. Not to condone any cheating, but if the CTP prizes were supplied by sponsors, unless it was beer, there's a good chance they would be happier with younger versus older recipients anyway...

 

[great white buffalo]

The kids should now have a reputation that is worse for them that the prizes were good for them.

 

[snappyfingers]

Following PDGA procedures by an experienced TD could have still resulted in the same scenario happening. Normally, Juniors are paired together. They likely wouldn't cheat on scores since they are competing against each other and ratings weren't at stake since it was doubles. So the CTPs were the only place cheating could have paid off, if in fact that happened. Not to condone any cheating, but if the CTP prizes were supplied by sponsors, unless it was beer, there's a good chance they would be happier with younger versus older recipients anyway...

I get what you're saying, but would you send out a group of kiddies in a tourney without some sort of supervision?

 

[cefrolfer]

This tournament wouldn't happen to be in winona minnesota would it?

 

[milesd37]

This. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Or in the words of the wise g.w. bush, "fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... well... you can't fool me a second time!"

 

[Cgkdisc]

I get what you're saying, but would you send out a group of kiddies in a tourney without some sort of supervision?

It depends. Usually there's at least one adult when kids are under 13 but not always for juniors in the 13-19 age range.

 

[kcplease]

kids. I hate that kind of people that disc. too bad theres lots of them.