Why don't Tournament Directors get paid?

[Dave242]

Every tournament I've ever ran (and I'm running my 21st sanctioned event this weekend, and I've ran everything from a C tier to a Major [haven't ran an NT but I've assisted in one]) makes profit.

I'm not sure why people don't think events / td's make profits off their events?

LOL at someone criticizing the way I run an event and has never played in one I've ran.

Ask anyone. Literally anyone who has played my event (that is this coming weekend) about it. I've NEVER made a penny on my events - actually, I'm severely in the hole.

Can anyone figure out how to reconcile the bolded parts these two posts? these quotes were typed within 2.5 hours of each other.

 

[smyith]

Can anyone figure out how to reconcile the bolded parts these two posts? these quotes were typed within 2.5 hours of each other.

MTL is good at contradicting himself.

 

[iacas]

Can anyone figure out how to reconcile the bolded parts these two posts? these quotes were typed within 2.5 hours of each other.

Couldn't it be that he raises money for the local club or charity?

 

[dusty5150]

Can anyone figure out how to reconcile the bolded parts these two posts? these quotes were typed within 2.5 hours of each other.

The only thing I can see is that the first statement is that the event makes a profit and his second statement is that he's never made a penny.

This is possible, as the event can profit and the profits go to a club or charity or course improvements and not directly into the TD's pocket for personal gain.

 

[Dave242]

iacas & Dusty - that almost certainly is the case......but how then is he "severely in the hole"? Is he a sponsor or a martyr?

 

[_MTL_]

Can anyone figure out how to reconcile the bolded parts these two posts? these quotes were typed within 2.5 hours of each other.

I donate all my profits to my events. I've stated this multiple times.

I could make money but I donate the profits, thus, I lose money when you factor in the expenses I pay out of pocket.

It is honestly sickening that I have one of the best tournaments in the Southeast as shown by the level of travel players make to my events and the amazing payout I provide on a year to year basis and yet, I'm being nitpicked by someone who not only hasn't ever played a single event of mine, but someone who lived in the state I'm from and had the opportunity to play one and didn't.

And people wonder why our sport can't get anywhere.

I challenge anyone and everyone to simply ask anyone who plays my event this weekend what they thought. Please do.

 

[grodney]

At least you still have your humility.

 

[_MTL_]

Couldn't it be that he raises money for the local club or charity?

All my profits go to the event or to a charity, pending the event.

Would anyone like to see my financials this weekend? I'll be glad to do so.

I'm sure Dave would. Perhaps I'll put them in excel so he can understand them.

 

[_MTL_]

I'd love to see the financials of some of the events Dave was involved in the charlotte club in the mid to late 2000s.

You see, when Dave was in the club, Charlotte events were basically boycotted amongst NC. Thankfully not the case anymore. But Charlotte was known for years for bad payouts. Depsite amazing courses and a great town, sanctioned events had 40 people or so. Pretty amazing that I can get all these players on crappy courses but until a few years ago, charlotte couldn't get many on amazing courses.....

For the record, I'm not accusing Dave or the club of anything shady. Simply providing an opinion as a player and saying that the club is 100 times better now.

 

[biscoe]

And people wonder why our sport can't get anywhere.

couldn't have anything to do with a non-sustainable event model which counts on the largesse of the td to put out hour after hour of time for little or no tangible reward to satisfy entitled micromanaging customers thus resulting in eventual td burnout...

naahhh... the "sport" doesn't "get anywhere" because it sucks for viewers/spectators.

 

[smyith]

I challenge anyone and everyone to simply ask anyone who plays my event this weekend what they thought. Please do.

no matter how many times you state this over and over again, nobody cares

 

[Dave242]

It is honestly sickening that I have one of the best tournaments in the Southeast as shown by the level of travel players make to my events and the amazing payout I provide on a year to year basis and yet, I'm being nitpicked by someone who not only hasn't ever played a single event of mine, but someone who lived in the state I'm from and had the opportunity to play one and didn't.

And people wonder why our sport can't get anywhere.

Where do you see me making anything but complimentary comments when I talk about your events and what you do for the sport? Find it/them so that I can apologize to you because if I did you are owed a public apology.

I think we both have a common interest in moving our sport forward and what I take issue with is something that I feel is holding the sport back....the way you post online. You are an elected official of the PDGA for goodness sake.

As I told you in a PM earlier today, "If you were not such a blowhard in how you express your opinions and offered a little grace and understanding and humility, I would not feel the need to push back on your posts."

 

[_MTL_]

Noted

 

[_MTL_]

Where do you see me making anything but complimentary comments when I talk about your events and what you do for the sport? Find it/them so that I can apologize to you because if I did you are owed a public apology.

I think we both have a common interest in moving our sport forward and what I take issue with is something that I feel is holding the sport back....the way you post online. You are an elected official of the PDGA for goodness sake.

As I told you in a PM earlier today, "If you were not such a blowhard in how you express your opinions and offered a little grace and understanding and humility, I would not feel the need to push back on your posts."

But calling me a marytr is acceptable and challenging my payouts in a sarcastic way is cool too as long as you post a unicorn at the end and a high five.........

 

[JC17393]

But calling me a marytr is acceptable and challenging my payouts in a sarcastic way is cool too as long as you post a unicorn at the end and a high five.........

Cripes, Robert, when you post about how you're in the hole as a result of the great events you put on in an almost bragging way, how is anyone not supposed to get the impression you want to be portrayed as a martyr. Perhaps you don't know exactly what a martyr is (it's not really a bad thing, necessarily).

It's great you put so much of yourself and your own money into your events, and that they're successful because of it. But that doesn't mean that is the only way or the "right" way to go about running successful events. It's simply one way to do it.

People in this thread are trying to argue that maybe there's a better way than the "TD martyr" method for creating and sustaining great disc golf events. In fact, they're trying to do TDs like you a favor. Trying to tell you it really is okay if you don't go "in the hole" to run your events. If you still want to, then by all means, do so. But don't take it as such an affront when people think your above and beyond efforts shouldn't be necessary to make a great event happen.

 

[smyith]

I think we both have a common interest in moving our sport forward and what I take issue with is something that I feel is holding the sport back....the way you post online. You are an elected official of the PDGA for goodness sake.

wait MTL is an elected official in the pDGA????? you got to be kidding me.

 

[Dave242]

I'd love to see the financials of some of the events Dave was involved in the charlotte club in the mid to late 2000s.

You see, when Dave was in the club, Charlotte events were basically boycotted amongst NC. Thankfully not the case anymore. But Charlotte was known for years for bad payouts. Depsite amazing courses and a great town, sanctioned events had 40 people or so. Pretty amazing that I can get all these players on crappy courses but until a few years ago, charlotte couldn't get many on amazing courses.....

For the record, I'm not accusing Dave or the club of anything shady. Simply providing an opinion as a player and saying that the club is 100 times better now.

This is amusing.....and false. When I joined the club leadership in 2003 there were only 2 regular PDGA events being run (well 5, if you counted each day of the Points Bonanza as one event - which it was). And we provided much of the staff for the USDGC. There were plenty of central/eastern NC players in these events in 2003 as well as for the remainder of the 2000's (I just glanced through the PDGA events to verify). Lots of Raleigh players too. And, most of the events had great attendance (at least 4-somes on every hole). By the time I had left, an April tournament had been added (I started it)....also well attended by people across the state.

I was really the only person I am aware of that brought in added cash from outside DG to events.....but I was a wholehearted proponent (still am) of not exceeding the PDGA payout guidelines by too much and instead investing the money's back into the courses.....and celebrating the club members who are contributing in good ways (parties, awards, etc).

The club back then was not focused on events like they are now (I spearheaded the conversation about doing an event per week night like they do now), but we we were focused on building and maintaining courses and growing membership. How has that gone from your perspective? From what I hear, things are going well in the club still in many regards....but not so much in some other areas (that were near and dear to me).

I could get you the TD reports if you wanted, but they are pretty boring....basically straight down PDGA guidelines.

 

[Dave242]

But calling me a marytr is acceptable and challenging my payouts in a sarcastic way is cool too as long as you post a unicorn at the end and a high five.........

huh?

I did not call you a martyr. I asked the question based on your post.....but if you think the shoe fits.....
I am not challenging your payouts. Show me the posts where I did.
I do not know what unicorns or high fives I've posted.

Here's a sarcastic high five for you:
:doh:

 

[Dave242]

Back on topic here.....not just for MTL, but anyone who finds this sort of endeavor admirable.

I have one of the best tournaments in the Southeast as shown by the level of travel players make to my events and the amazing payout I provide on a year to year basis

Why do you feel travel players deserve to be compensated well by you?
What value do they add that earns them your money (and your sponsors' money)?
What motivates you to do this on their behalf?

When you have answered this, ask each of those questions with "TDs" in place of "travel players".

 

[DavidSauls]

At least you still have your humility.

Where's the "like" button when you need it?