Why don't Tournament Directors get paid?

[Atrain]

What will it take for Disc Golf to change our own culture to be gracious enough to expect our TDs to get paid? It seems like we all have or have had this "I want a great tournament, with player pack, and a good payout, and I want you to do all the work for free."

Please use this thread to discuss how we can pay these people who work so hard so we can have fun on the weekend. Try not to let us divulge in rehashing how tournaments currently run. There are plenty of threads about that.

Make this thread about innovation and change.

 

[Mattallica]

Not a bad idea

 

[coopera]

Maybe even set some sort of limits on it or something and tie it to payout to encourage securing a high payout.

Definitely should be something that is considered though.

 

[smyith]

this has been a discussion in the pDGA for a few years. there is alot of support for it, but the BoD has dragged their feet on making it happen. Guys like Terry Miller (The Disc Golf Guy) have managed to make it happen, not sure how.
I personally think that they should get some percentage of ALL participants fees (not just from the ams CB). Those arguing against it are just greedy bleeps

 

[New013]

screw the players pack

 

[smyith]

screw the players pack

as long as we can still purchase tournament stamped discs i am 100% fine with that. the only reason I like players packs is because i like tourny stamped discs and when they aren't included i usually pay out of pocket for one.

 

[turbosteve]

I also hope that clubs who run tournaments can make a profit so they can raise money for more courses and tournaments.

 

[Dan Ensor]

At this point in dg's life, it will still take a lot of love to grow the sport. How much do you want to pay them? I'm guessing if we payed what they should make, we'd be paying them (a lot) more than the added cash at most tourneys. I'm guessing somewhere in the $1-2000 range for a 1-course tournament.

And what about the guys that keep the courses maintained? They need to be paid. They get a lot less love than TDs, but do more work still. And you can't just pay them once and expect to have a properly maintained course.

And what about pro payout? My last discgolfer magazine seemed to suggest that anything below $40,000 added cash (pro payout) is a meaningless tournament that is detrimental to the sport.

So why are we trying to make more people TD events? It seems to me that there is an excess of events and still not enough money. Paying TDs is just about the last thing the sport needs (at the moment). If we don't have enough love of the sport to have a TD for good events, the sport is doomed anyway.

 

[Three Putt]

this has been a discussion in the pDGA for a few years. there is alot of support for it, but the BoD has dragged their feet on making it happen. Guys like Terry Miller (The Disc Golf Guy) have managed to make it happen, not sure how.
I personally think that they should get some percentage of ALL participants fees (not just from the ams CB). Those arguing against it are just greedy bleeps

Terry Miller catches Hell for doing it. I've heard a guy who held a high-up PDGA position call Terry Miller a thief. He sticks to his guns, runs good events and people keep coming. The fact that he keeps some of the money to offset his expenses doesn't seem to bother the people who show up. It really bothers a lot of the people who don't.

 

[Dave242]

It will be a huge culture change to allow this to happen. If paying the TD in a way that is something other than a token gesture of goodwill, it would be extremely expensive (in relative terms).

What is a TD times worth? Certainly more than minimum wage. Lets just say $20 per hour. For an event with 72 competitors on 1 course, it is probably at least 40 hours of work dedicated to that tournament if he does things properly......$800. That's $11 extra for each player. If there are only 40 players, that is $20 each. IMO, $20/hr is pretty measly....you should really probably double it since it is "overtime" hours the TD is working anyways.

Is $20-30 extra per player what you had in mind? Would players chose these events over others nearby (or maybe none at all) rather than pay that extra fee?

 

[New013]

TD's should do it for the love of the game not money...

isn't that the argument people are making in the Am bagger thread? that Ams should do it for love not plastic?

 

[Tpro]

I think in the early 2000's MAce Man could of probably been paid to TD. DD could do it now and the spike Hyzer events could go that way. If you attract the people the TD's could be worth paying. IMO.

 

[PhattD]

How about this. Everyone reading this that agrees TD's should get paid, just tip your TD $5 next time you're at a tournament you enjoyed. Or even just appreciate the work the TD put in. Maybe $5 a day for multi day tournaments. Dave's thought of $20 an hour is probably reasonable but I think the TD's would be happy with $30 in tips compared to making nothing. So who's with me? I'll be tipping my next TD.

 

[turbosteve]

Terry Miller catches Hell for doing it. I've heard a guy who held a high-up PDGA position call Terry Miller a thief. He sticks to his guns, runs good events and people keep coming. The fact that he keeps some of the money to offset his expenses doesn't seem to bother the people who show up. It really bothers a lot of the people who don't.

The person who called Terry Miller a thief is an idiot.

 

[JC17393]

There used to be an allowance for an "event management" fee to be retained by the tournament director at PDGA events. Basically a commission for running the event. It was something like up to $100 at a C-tier and maybe up to $400 or $500 at an A-tier or NT. That line is completely gone from the tour standards document now. No idea why.

It's not as though many TDs were taking advantage of that allowance. I'd guess that few even knew about it and even those that did either chose not to take it or were afraid that they'd get too much **** for taking what, according to the PDGA, was rightfully theirs.

It seems totally logical to me to think that if there was more incentive than simple "love of the game", we'd have more TDs putting more effort into running top notch events. It's a lot easier to justify taking time off from a regular job or spending extra time away from the family to prep for, let alone run tournaments if there was more of an opportunity to off-set one's time and expense even just a little bit.

 

[Dan Ensor]

How often do events get cancelled for lack of a td?

 

[PhattD]

How often do events get cancelled for lack of a td?

Better questions are how many events never happen for lack of a TD and how many events suck for lack of a quality TD willing to sacrifice his time for nothing?

 

[mashnut]

How often do events get cancelled for lack of a td?

I think the point is more, how much better could some of our events be if TDs were able to put a bunch more time and effort into running awesome events because they were getting some compensation.

It's similar to course design IMO. It's great that we have a large number of people who have gone out and done the legwork to get courses put in around the country, but that doesn't mean that we can't improve on what we get from untrained and unpaid designers when we compensate someone like Houck with the expertise to do a really fantastic job.

 

[Karl]

If we're truly in a "free society" (politically, organizationally, and financially), we should be perfectly fine with "full disclosure up front and let the players choose with their feet".

A. This IS the "land of the free", no?

B. Free market enterprise! The "lesser" TDs / TDs taking too much will be boycotted.

C. The PDGA (or any other "organization") should NOT have the power to mandate TDs can/can't make a profit.

As long as the TD - up front - states "what's the deal", s/he should be able to make some money doing a service to the dg community. Try it!! If I'm wrong, the populous will revolt; if not, they'll like it and the person will probably do it (put on a tournament) again.

Just make sure that everything's disclosed prior to and that ANY governing body doesn't get into "control / power-hungry mode".

Karl

 

[DiscinFiend]

I think the point is more, how much better could some of our events be if TDs were able to put a bunch more time and effort into running awesome events because they were getting some compensation.

It's similar to course design IMO. It's great that we have a large number of people who have gone out and done the legwork to get courses put in around the country, but that doesn't mean that we can't improve on what we get from untrained and unpaid designers when we compensate someone like Houck with the expertise to do a really fantastic job.

:thmbup: Case closed