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Why overstable for OH?

dlognittam

Bogey Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
86
Location
Charlotte, NC!!
I searched and found a couple threads regarding this topic, but they all were too old and wouldn't let me reply. I'd like to know why the overstable discs are always suggested for thumbers/tommys. I use a 7ish/10 Champion Beast for my OH and consider it one of the best parts of my game. I know I must be missing something here (you guys have wayyyyyyy more experience than I do); but when I throw something like a Star Max, the disc tends to pan way out to the left before coming back, while the Beast holds a nice quick left to right path staying more upright. The overstable stuff gives me more distance, but if the hole is open enough to let the disc pan out like it does then I wouldn't be throwing a thumber on it in the first place! What am I missing?
 
You can reply to old threads, you just have to check the box that says something like "I realize this is an old thread, but I want to reply anyway."

As for your question, it sounds like you answered it on your own. I don't know that you are missing anything. If you are, then I am too ;)
 
Your not missing anything. I don't throw OH for distance they are for rescue or accuracy though a skinny gap and i also tend to throw stable star valk to understable beat flx averger ss depending on how quick i want the barrel roll.
 
i have a gummy champion beast and that i used for my tomahawk disc, i would tommy that disc all over the place. yes you are right it does keep a nice line, but then I lost it. now i have a star boss and that thing loves to be thrown tommy or thumber. once you get into the overstable discs you also have to work the angle of the disc(well you have to with any disc). throw it straight up and down(12:00) it will go out to the right more(tommy). throw it at like 10:00 and it will turn faster. that is the only disc i use for those shots. 2 years later someone found my beast and i don't really use it any more.
 
I use more OS discs because they have a lot less rolling and left to right action. Supposedly the less of that the further the disc can travel. All I know is; its a lot easier to get through a narrow gape the longer the disc stays vertical and straight.
 
zenbot's OH Rant: Copy and Pasted for your perusal.

zenbotticus "robotface" rex said:
There is conventional wisdom that can help you with disc selection. I don't subscribe to the theory that you should only use overstable discs.


Overstable discs will complete their turn more slowly. This increases the amount of time the disc is parallel to the ground which keeps it in the air longer.

Less stable discs complete their turn more quickly. Less distance but I find them to be more accurate as the disc starts falling to the ground quicker and is less influenced by wind and variances in your release angle.


One other note is that if you're throwing an understable thumber you need to aim slightly more left of the target than you would with an overstable disc. (Assuming you're throwing RH)

To get you started the Firebird is a very popular disc for thumbers. I use my for distance overhands and a Teebird for shorter shots. Keep in mind that overhand shots are rough on discs. I recommend premium plastic.
 
Yes. Overstable discs are great for throwing OH for distance. But if you truly learn an OH shot you will also realize that some less stable discs are good for certain situations. I have used a Champion Panther for thumbers quite a bit. I can throw it up and over trees and have it land perfectly pancaked pretty darn accurately. Great for approaches. Not great for max distance. I have used Roadrunners for similar shots. I know people that use Valkyries too. Throw a bunch of discs and see what works for you. Generally truly over stable discs will give you max distance and less stable discs will take shorter flight paths and hit different lines.
 
I searched and found a couple threads regarding this topic, but they all were too old and wouldn't let me reply. I'd like to know why the overstable discs are always suggested for thumbers/tommys. I use a 7ish/10 Champion Beast for my OH and consider it one of the best parts of my game. I know I must be missing something here (you guys have wayyyyyyy more experience than I do); but when I throw something like a Star Max, the disc tends to pan way out to the left before coming back, while the Beast holds a nice quick left to right path staying more upright. The overstable stuff gives me more distance, but if the hole is open enough to let the disc pan out like it does then I wouldn't be throwing a thumber on it in the first place! What am I missing?

As everyone else has stated, it is really more about what you are trying to get out of the OH shot. If the hole calls for a long OH, throw more overstable. If not, stick with what you've been doing.
 
quick and easy....

simple answer: Because most people naturally put a lot of snap and power into their forehand and need an overstable disc that they cant "turn over" or flip "sideways into a roller".

more complex answer:
On a more fundamental and philosophical approach... i've determined that instead of adapting one's throw to a FH disc, it's a lot better to find a disc that works for you; albeit understable, stable, overstable.. <whatever> ...as long as you can put it flat and drive it a good distance, it works.

my basic thought for a FH is simple... Walk up, dont think and "throw" (*Maybe 75%*)... not hard, not soft, but the "same every time"...
if the disc flips up (toward the face plate) and turns into a roller, you either have: too much power, not throwing flat (anhyzer - outer edge up), or too much of an understable disc. - Get heavier or more overstable.
if the disc flips down (toward the underside) and turns into a roller, you either have: not enough power, not throwing flat (hyzer - outer edge down), or too much of an overstable disc. - Get a lighter or understable.

The basic thought is that you should be able to throw a disc <table top> flat. Once you get that, discs can (and will) perform exactly like the backhand performance when throw correctly (ie. "s" curves, turnover, hyzer, etc.) The key is finding discs that you can throw flat - the "stability" is not necessarily the key element; finding the disc that works for you is. From there, you can adjust accordingly based on the performance you need.

Do note.... overhand (thumber, tomahawk) and FH throws are very rough on the human body. I try not to do overhand shots, and i use an elbow brace when i play as excessive FH throwing gives me "tennis elbow" like symptoms.
 
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and FH throws are very rough on the human body. I try not to do overhand shots, and i use an elbow brace when i play as excessive FH throwing gives me "tennis elbow" like symptoms.

this.
i haven't gotten too much 'tennis elbow' from DG (although I've had the soreness occasionally) but more from ultimate FH shots....
 
So when it comes to drivers, I only have Teebirds, and understableishs tuff, (Valks, RR, SW, A-SS, Leos). If I wanted to start trying some OH and FH what disc should I get? I don't really want to wreck my TB's, I could get a couple more of those I suppose.
 
So when it comes to drivers, I only have Teebirds, and understableishs tuff, (Valks, RR, SW, A-SS, Leos). If I wanted to start trying some OH and FH what disc should I get? I don't really want to wreck my TB's, I could get a couple more of those I suppose.

What do you mean, "Wreck my TBs..."? Are they DX plastic? Then I can see why you would say that. If they be premium plastic you aint gonna wrecked 'em.:D
 
So when it comes to drivers, I only have Teebirds, and understableishs tuff, (Valks, RR, SW, A-SS, Leos). If I wanted to start trying some OH and FH what disc should I get? I don't really want to wreck my TB's, I could get a couple more of those I suppose.

use the understable stuff, you don't need anything else. Learn how to flick those and you will actually learn how to throw the shot. Overstable stuff (just like with BH) will teach you bad form.

For the OP, I recommend using understable discs for OH. Unless you have a cannon arm and can consistently throw OH over 300' then you dont really need an overstable disc. I can throw them about 250' max and use a roadrunner. I rarely throw it off the tee, moreso for get out of trouble shots where I don't have room for a runup and need to go over the top to get to the fairway or basket.
 
FYI FH and OH are 2 entirely different animals. I would even say that I prefer different discs even for tommies vs Thumbers.

Really all it comes down to is how much "power" you put on the disc in OH on what you are going to use. Power does not equal distance though as I require something very beefy for my thumbeer but have seen people get just as far with less umph and a more understable disc. The disc needs to fit you.
 
What do you mean, "Wreck my TBs..."? Are they DX plastic? Then I can see why you would say that. If they be premium plastic you aint gonna wrecked 'em.:D

They are all champs! I only have 3, and usually only one in my bag. I suppose I could keep my "pretty one" for BH only, and use the other two "backups" to practice OH with. Some of the guys I play with use OH shots routinely, especially on some of the home grown courses here, with great success, so naturally I am jealous!!!
 
use the understable stuff, you don't need anything else. Learn how to flick those and you will actually learn how to throw the shot. Overstable stuff (just like with BH) will teach you bad form.

For the OP, I recommend using understable discs for OH. Unless you have a cannon arm and can consistently throw OH over 300' then you dont really need an overstable disc. I can throw them about 250' max and use a roadrunner. I rarely throw it off the tee, moreso for get out of trouble shots where I don't have room for a runup and need to go over the top to get to the fairway or basket.


I respectfully disagree with this...especially when the poster, admittedly, doesn't use the shot off the tee for max distance and instead uses it for shorter trouble shots.

:popcorn:
 
I use it for the same thing, rarely off the tee and not for serious D. I find that understable stuff is easier to throw and finishes the turn quicker than overstable stuff. For me the overstable discs have more side to side motion and are harder to control. Not really sure what you are disagreeing with. Have fun eating your popcorn :)
 
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For me, the more stable the disc, the more consistently it tends to fly. When I throw OH thumbers with a Sidewinder, it can end up just about anywhere; left, right, long, short, even right on line. It flips over really fast on the first turn, but where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

I use a KC Pro Whippet X as my thumber disc now and it goes exactly the same every time I throw it. A nice hard fade left followed by a long, slow turn back to the right that will keep panning all the way to the ground.

I don't use a whole lot of OH, but when I need it for a ~250' drive or a get-out-of-trouble shot, it's nice to know that the disc will be consistent.
 
use the understable stuff, you don't need anything else. Learn how to flick those and you will actually learn how to throw the shot. Overstable stuff (just like with BH) will teach you bad form.

For the OP, I recommend using understable discs for OH. Unless you have a cannon arm and can consistently throw OH over 300' then you dont really need an overstable disc. I can throw them about 250' max and use a roadrunner. I rarely throw it off the tee, moreso for get out of trouble shots where I don't have room for a runup and need to go over the top to get to the fairway or basket.

I'd have to disagree as well. Learning forehand and backhand are different. There's a lot more torque on a sidearm shot where the understable stuff will just flip. Forehand is something you can have a lot of power right away.
 
I use it for the same thing, rarely off the tee and not for serious D. I find that understable stuff is easier to throw and finishes the turn quicker than overstable stuff. For me the overstable discs have more side to side motion and are harder to control. Not really sure what you are disagreeing with. Have fun eating your popcorn :)
I am arguing your point stating that there isn't a need for overstable discs when throwing OH even for shorter shots. It's about creating two different lines and, unlike BH, I don't feel it's a detriment to form to use both. Sometimes the side to side action is necessary. I also prefer overstable discs for skip thumbers.

I don't deny that less stable discs are a great choice for certain shots. I use a Firebird/Teebird combo for my thumbers. Together they form an Unstoppable Juggernaut of Thumber Madness... which is also the title of my 4th album. ;)

:eatsmorepopcorn:
 

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