It would have to be a few feet out, in front of their lie before I would be concerned. But to be honest, they should not be putting anything between the lie and the basket. Most players I have played with, including myself, put the previous disc off to the side, out of the way.
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Writing on putter
- Thread starter araytx
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It would have to be a few feet out, in front of their lie before I would be concerned. But to be honest, they should not be putting anything between the lie and the basket. Most players I have played with, including myself, put the previous disc off to the side, out of the way.
robdeforge
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yea, I meant more like what Chris Dickerson does here:
I guess timestamps don't work when embedding. it happens at 5:21
I've never seen what you're describing happen in casual play or tournament play, in person or online
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Just because you place it in front of you doesn't mean you have done so "as a directional aid". I have seen hundreds if not thousands of instances of placing the previously thrown disc in front of the marker- not once have I thought someone was using it as a directional aid.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
So is the rule "813.02 Illegal Device : Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed." Really needed?
cheesethin
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This was my thought as well. The rule isn't a prohibition on any objects infront of the lie. Only things placed "as a directional aid".
What's the history behind the directional aid rule? Did people run up the fairway to spot blind baskets and then drop their bag to mark the line?
In what situations would a directional aid be actually useful? And how often do these situations occur?
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biscoe
* Ace Member *
From a theoretical perspective probably yes. From a practical perspective probably no. I would be interested to know the reasoning behind it to begin with though per Conrad.
I never understood the need for it. I've been in situations where I, or a player in my group, is in a blind spot on a hole, and got turned around enough to not know which direction the basket was. It's kinda time consuming when the thrower walks up, visualizes the target, walks back, loses his place, walks back up, walks back, etc.
In such cases, by rule, setting a bag or a towel on the ground for aiming purposes is illegal. But if another player lines himself up between the thrower and the target to point the thrower in the right direction, then ducks out of the way before the throw, that's fine. Obviously it's not physically placing an object but it's done in the same spirit as placing the object, so why shouldn't it be treated the same way?
Absent a rule disallowing it, players that place an object as a visual aid run the risk of hitting the object with their throw, which introduces potential interference penalties. That seems a reasonable enough deterrent to me.
robdeforge
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bolded situation would likely be a time violation, even though they are almost literally never called
underlined situation, like you pointed out, would violate 810 Interference section G. so it's not "fine":
"Players must not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur."
Nah, that's nothing that I personally would ever think of calling, like I said, the disc or object, towel, etc, would have to be a few feet in front of the lie to get my attention.
Totally depends how far in front of your lie. Inches..no big deal. A few feet...I'm starting to wonder why it's there.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
I had to call timing on inside circle putts on a player due to the way he played claiming everything as a distraction including stuff that did not bother him on outside circle as he could then jump putt. The guy was a pro in the oldest division at tournaments that had enough people to make a full division and often took first if not second if only what is now Masters 40+ was available he was then in his late 50 to very early 60's now 10-11 years older. He would get like a person with a nervous disorder shaking so bad if inside the circle. He then threatened me and tried to claim my dad who was playing at this tournament his Juju in he soft Supreme plastic was illigal due to company folding. This guy thought all companies had to pay PDGA $5 every year to keep a disc mold legal. So this guy thought a company like Innova was paying $100-200 for all the molds every year that Innova had out at the time to have discs remain legal. He was proven wrong by the director of the tournament by showing all the legal molds and that even a Puppy from Destiny Discs was on the list.
My guess is this guy started playing disc golf before there ever was the 30 foot later changed 10 meter circle in the early 1970's when Disc Golf tournaments were still using the non permanent ground baskets or for permanent courses some kind of low 1 foot tall pole, often same type found on a horseshoe pit. I know because he might be the guy who helped make the Omaha park course in Rapid city in 1979, he "claims" to be the guy who made that course.
cheesethin
Birdie Member
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I'm not understanding how something can act as a directional aid when placed only a few feet, or even 10/20 feet, infront of a player. The distance is just too short.
To my mind a directional aid would need to be much much further away for it to have an actual practical benefit to the player.
Granted it would appear peculiar if a player deliberately placed something 10' infront of their lie. But I would still find it hard to believe they were actually benefiting by doing so.
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I suspect the rule would have come about by someone (and there's always that guy) placing an umbrella upright in the ground on a line halfway between the basket and the player for a putt.
It's much easier to hit the spot a foot above the umbrella knowing that hitting that spot means the disc will go in - similar to how you can often make long putts out of the trees just by knowing you have to hit the one gap 10' from you to make the basket 30' away. If you can visualise the discs flight in your mind and the bits of the air it needs to go through to be successful you will be a better putter. Sticking an object to go over on the way would help that.
We've been doing a something like that at putting club in a gym where we can lower two wooden beams and make a gap around half a foot between them and halfway to the basket. It looks like it should be impossible to get through and into a basket 30 - 40' away, it's actually pretty easy as you just aim to the gap in the beams 15 - 20' from you in the knowledge that if you get through there you will almost certainly get into the basket.
It's much easier to hit the spot a foot above the umbrella knowing that hitting that spot means the disc will go in - similar to how you can often make long putts out of the trees just by knowing you have to hit the one gap 10' from you to make the basket 30' away. If you can visualise the discs flight in your mind and the bits of the air it needs to go through to be successful you will be a better putter. Sticking an object to go over on the way would help that.
We've been doing a something like that at putting club in a gym where we can lower two wooden beams and make a gap around half a foot between them and halfway to the basket. It looks like it should be impossible to get through and into a basket 30 - 40' away, it's actually pretty easy as you just aim to the gap in the beams 15 - 20' from you in the knowledge that if you get through there you will almost certainly get into the basket.
robdeforge
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And I guess what I'm saying is that theoretically I get what you're saying, but in practice I've never seen anybody do anything close to that. I've only been playing disc golf for 6 years, but I have literally never once observed what you're talking about. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I see PLENTY of other rules violations all the time so it's not like the people I play with or pros I watch always play by the rules.
In over 100 tournaments, I have never called anyone for this rule. Like I said, if I saw someone throw something down on the ground a few feet in front of their lie, I would ask them to remove it the first time, 2nd time...call them out. And here's why.....since a few of you don't understand how it could possibly be a visual aid.
When it comes to putting and approach shots, the window needed to hit your line is typically only a few feet in front of you. Once you hit that window, the rest is up to the disc. Granted it's not on the ground, it's a window probably anywhere from 5ft-7ft off the ground, but only a few feet in front of you. Distance perception is vital in this game, we all look for visual clues to get an idea how far the disc is to the basket. Especially on fairways with few features, in this case a rock, broken branch, etc, could be very helpful in getting a feel for distance and hitting a line. Most of us will do this in a subliminal nature and not even realize we're doing so. So sure, in the rare case when a player obviously places something "in front" of their marker, it's going to get my attention.
DiscinFiend
* Ace Member *
I've done something very similar in the past. I wrote "SLOW DOWN" on my minis.
If someone is going to aim at the ground 10ft in front of them for a 30'+ putt I'm gonna let them. My guess is they will land close to that 10ft mark.
Thinking something that close and low will aid your putting is, well, idiotic.
Thinking something that close and low will aid your putting is, well, idiotic.
Seriously...you've never seen a large rock, fallen branch, etc, on the ground in between you and the basket, and then used that object as a reference point? Now..take that object and now imagine a straight line going up from that object which allows you to set an imaginary target to hit. You've never done something like that while playing this game???
Seriously...you've never seen a large rock, fallen branch, etc, on the ground in between you and the basket, and then used that object as a reference point? Now..take that object and now imagine a straight line going up from that object which allows you to set an imaginary target to hit. You've never done something like that while playing this game???
Never. I don't throw at the ground. I focus on what I want to hit, the pole or a chain link. What you're describing makes no sense to me.
