2017 DGPT Tour Championship

[BuiltTooLong]

If Paige is bitter with Dodge trying to better highlight her win by creating a more memorable & signature finish, than maybe Dodge should take a Paige (bad pun) out of Jussi's book and dump the women's division. If she doesn't appreciate what he's trying to do in this situation its extremely shortsighted of her, and honestly comes off as more selfish of her not him IMO.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

I remember an NFL kickoff return for a TD being taken away because TV had not come back to the game from their commercials.

.

I don't remember that ever happening. What game was that?

 

[Major Tomahawk]

If Paige is bitter with Dodge trying to better highlight her win by creating a more memorable & signature finish, than maybe Dodge should take a Paige (bad pun) out of Jussi's book and dump the women's division. If she doesn't appreciate what he's trying to do in this situation its extremely shortsighted of her, and honestly comes off as more selfish of her not him IMO.

I think you are both over-reacting.

 

[TimSyl]

My opinion is Paige should act as if she's been there before...and we all know she has. With the five shot lead, she could have easily waited for her fellow competitors to finish.

 

[brutalbrutus]

This whole thing is just dumb and could have been easily avoided. Before the round started, he should have gathered the lead card and said "If anyone has an unbeatable lead going into the final hole, or gains an unbeatable lead during the final hole, that person should be the last to hole out. So, if you are inside (however many feet he thought was reasonable) let the others finish out before you play."...

 

[Major Tomahawk]

How about our club, The Delta Windjammers out of Stockton, CA? We sponsored the DGPT this year. Our signs were mostly on the elevated baskets. It was cool to see my buddy, Gregg Barsby, ace one of our sponsored holes. JohnE McCray ace one of them too, last week. Our club went out of its way to help grow this tour. I'd like to see more clubs send in some sponsor donations next year to help bump up the tour payouts.

Congratulations, DGPT, on an exciting year. Looking forward to more growth next year.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I think you are both over-reacting.

Agreed, I am overreacting to her overreaction.

I just don't think she should bite the axiomatic hand that feeds her. If she wants FPO to be treated more like MPO, then I feel she should amicably try to cater to the production when it has zero affect on the outcome of the tournament.

 

[JC17393]

Agreed, I am overreacting to her overreaction.

I just don't think she should bite the axiomatic hand that feeds her. If she wants FPO to be treated more like MPO, then I feel she should amicably try to cater to the production when it has zero affect on the outcome of the tournament.

Maybe she would "amicably" cater to the production if she was asked to do so at an appropriate time. While a player (any player) is lining up to putt is not an appropriate time to interrupt them for anything short of a safety concern.

I don't think anyone is arguing that catering to the television production is inherently bad. Just that Steve's timing wasn't great and it isn't a surprise that Paige (or any other player in her position) wouldn't have a happy reaction to it.

Some folks keep pointing out that she should be doing her part, but let's not forget that the FPO is rarely ever featured on live coverage. At least not for the final hole of the tournament. Other than at Worlds, has an FPO finish been covered live before? Certainly not at a DGPT event since the women are usually done before the broadcast ever goes live.

People can point to MPO players like Ricky or Paul being "aware" enough to check with Terry or whomever to make sure cameras are live before they throw, but they're also doing it on a regular basis. Not so with the women. Yes, they are often covered by cameras, but almost always those cameras are recording for edited coverage. And in edited coverage, one can re-arrange the order to put the winner's putt last (hell, the one tourney round I've ever recorded and edited I did that). It may not occur to them as naturally as it does to the MPO players that they should account for the production. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't if they were asked to do so in a reasonable fashion.

 

[discgolfer25]

I agree with the fact that Steve might have said something at the wrong time with the information given. I will say that when I was part of an event on the DGPT earlier in the year, I watched as Paige berated the TD and Steve. The TD about course setup and Steve about the event prior. It honestly made me lose a lot of respect towards her. I understand that she expects for events to be held to a high standard but it was the way that she went about it. It was very "unprofessional" in my opinion. I wasn't at the Championship so I can not comment on how she handled that situation but I do think she should be a little more sympathetic to those who are trying to create great events with the goal in mind of helping players such as her.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

Maybe she would "amicably" cater to the production if she was asked to do so at an appropriate time.

Do you think that if it was Rusco that was putting all the time & effort into running this tour and this event championship, that she would've had the same reaction if he stepped in the way Dodge did?

 

[lyleoross]

Actually they do not hold people from attempting putts or any other shots for that matter. In fact the marshals are usually pushing the players to play faster. They have multiple cameras on every hole and if something happens while they're on commercial, or covering another player, you will here the announcer say, "This was a moment ago" or "This was what caused that roar you heard during So-and-so's shot." Probably the only time the players ask about or are told the cameras are on them is when they want to smoke a cigarette.

I keep using the term marshall when I shouldn't. I'm pretty sure that if the winning player putted out on a final hole and it got missed because no one asked him to wait for the camera to move, it would be a problem.

 

[lyleoross]

"Uh Bob, we missed that thirty foot putt by Phil to win the Masters cause no one asked him to wait for the camera. Back to you."

"No problem Joe, our fans in TV land heard the roar."

 

[brutalbrutus]

I keep using the term marshall when I shouldn't. I'm pretty sure that if the winning player putted out on a final hole and it got missed because no one asked him to wait for the camera to move, it would be a problem.

They usually cover the greens with tower cams and are always live for situations like that. Its pretty funny that you said you don't watch a lot of ball golf and then start arguing with people that do about what happens.

 

[NegaSnapples]

Why are people in here acting like it's OK to interrupt a professional athlete when they're trying to perform?

Finishing out is something that the players should police themselves. Even in regular golf they do this themselves, not under the direction of someone else.

I agree it's better aesthetically for her to hole out last. However, she's a competitor. She's competing against herself as much as she's competing with the other ladies. She wanted to get the best possible score she could. I understand her mentality there.

 

[lyleoross]

They usually cover the greens with tower cams and are always live for situations like that. Its pretty funny that you said you don't watch a lot of ball golf and then start arguing with people that do about what happens.

I think that's exactly the point. Ball golf has had long enough to put this stuff together so that they are covered. We haven't. Try this scenario. There's a power loss to the tower cam covering the final hole. Do you say play it out or ask the players to wait?

I may not know all the in and outs of ball golf, but I do know how marketing executives and businesses work. They're pretty careful about their product and what gets said and done.

I had a similar discussion on cheating in golf a couple of months ago where numerous ball golf posters swore up and down, mostly at me, that ball golfers are hugely ethical and cheating didn't occur there. It does and the evidence was easy to find. You don't have to be an expert to understand human nature and investment in a process.

 

[lyleoross]

Why are people in here acting like it's OK to interrupt a professional athlete when they're trying to perform?

Finishing out is something that the players should police themselves. Even in regular golf they do this themselves, not under the direction of someone else.

I agree it's better aesthetically for her to hole out last. However, she's a competitor. She's competing against herself as much as she's competing with the other ladies. She wanted to get the best possible score she could. I understand her mentality there.

In a perfect world where all that matters is the game, you bet. We used to have that. It was called the Olympic games. Nothing has been like that in a very long time, including the modern Olympic games.

 

[Countchunkula]

Unfortunately, you're right. I remember an NFL kickoff return for a TD being taken away because TV had not come back to the game from their commercials.

I don't remember that ever happening. What game was that?

Meant to call bs on this as well.

 

[Steve West]

This is a course that will benefit a lot from refinements geared to optimizing the competitive aspects.

Here are the x-rays of a few select holes.

Hole #3 is an example of a good par 2. The higher skilled players got more 2s and fewer 3s. However, the fact that a par 2 could contribute this much to the final results indicates that the course as a whole is not very strong as a test of skill.

Hole #11 is about as blah as a hole can get, but it was the fifth strongest hole.

Hole #8A had the most influence on the final scores – mostly from sheer force of a high average score. However, look at the 6s. Higher scores should get less frequent for better players. The 5s and 7s go down, but not 6s. Some sort of double penalty is going on that isn't helping anything. Either the new "mark near where it lies in OB" or Relief Area rule would be good to apply here.

Hole #12 shows how a hole can actually generate more tie scores than if it had been left out. The scoring spread was OK, as it gave out 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s, but there was no discrimination about who they went to. Randomly handing out scores clumps final results.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

**Puts pitchfork down** Thanks for all the great info as always Steve. I think given the format of this event, it's hard to draw conclusions on how well a hole plays. The discrimination factor on how a hole plays is greatly varied by the scenario each player was facing at the time. As it became clear to a player that they had no chance of making the cut, they inevitably took scores they normally would not have if purely playing for their best round.

**Picks pitchfork back up** Hole 3 is NOT an "example of a good par 2" because I refuse to accept that any hole should be a par 2, much less a hole on a championship style course.

 

[onemilemore]

This whole thing is just dumb and could have been easily avoided. Before the round started, he should have gathered the lead card and said "If anyone has an unbeatable lead going into the final hole, or gains an unbeatable lead during the final hole, that person should be the last to hole out. So, if you are inside (however many feet he thought was reasonable) let the others finish out before you play."...

I followed up with Steve, and this is exactly what he said he intended to do but did not end up doing. In that case, then, I still think he should have just let things play out without trying to know what was going on.