2017 DGPT Tour Championship

[NegaSnapples]

I like that a couple events have used different basket locations for different rounds, this year. Though, I think those events may have been NT not DGPT? PFDO was one I think? USDGC was another. If the DGPT is gonna continue to do the single course format I think using different locations should be used where applicable. Not necessarily on every hole but a few mixed in throughout the course would be cool. Maple Hill is an obvious candidate. Idlewild has several holes with multiple locations but most haven't been used in years.

Just a minor correction, PFDO played the same course everyday, they did switch some basket locations after day 1 though.

IMO this should be the format, same course but change up the basket locations to offer different ways that the pros need to attack the course. This allows them to still have ample opportunity to practice a course, while allowing spectators to see something different day to day.

 

[DatRedDude]

The winner putts last if everyone is close and all the putts are all but assured. That doesn't mean a player should have lay up a make-able putt just to ensure that they putt out last for the show of it. She was 25-30 feet out. It's her turn to putt, let her freaking putt and if she makes it, she makes it.

I get that she had an insurmountable lead so one extra throw wasn't going to cost her, and that Steve is trying to think about the visuals and making things look good, but that's just bad form to do that, especially as she's setting up to putt. If he really wanted her to make the last putt, he should have brought it up earlier. At least then, it's more organic if it happens.

Just an additional thought...this was PDGA sanctioned so I assume that the rounds will be rated. I think she was gunning for a hot round (1000+) and had no interest in laying up. She ran at and made the putt on 17 when she didn't really have to as well. Her -6 was better than two of the five MPO players in the final round. She makes history every time she raises her rating and I bet it's a source of pride for her. Every putt counts in that pursuit.

in the case of an insurmountable lead the card should always put out and let the winner have the stage IMO. Golf does this all the time. Not comparing anything to golf before the crazies show up but it makes for a good viewing on the TV/youtube side and gallery cheering. just my .02$

 

[JC17393]

in the case of an insurmountable lead the card should always put out and let the winner have the stage IMO. Golf does this all the time. Not comparing anything to golf before the crazies show up but it makes for a good viewing on the TV/youtube side and gallery cheering. just my .02$

Right, but in golf, you're talking about one other player, maybe two, putting out ahead of the winner, not 3-4 others. Also, there are always occasions where the winner rolls in a long putt or even holes one from off the green on the final hole. In other words, the circumstances dictate whether the leader is the last to hole out...it should never be mandatory or inorganically created for the show of it.

 

[cydisc]

Quick question that I can't seem to find an answer to with an admittedly half-assed search of this forum...

Is this a temporary version of this course made just for the tournament, or is it a redesign from the one that is featured in the directory?

 

[onemilemore]

Judging from the number of mentions and announcements already (5 holes), it seems like an extremely poor decision to allow for spectators to follow the group in carts.

Just another reason disc golf on ball golf courses suck.

I thought this was a big mistake. It was a mess the day before, too, and I asked Steve Dodge if he had any plans for crowd control. He said he did not, and that the carts seemed like fun. I suggested he ask the players how they feel. Ultimately, though, they were renting out those carts, so the cash for the course was king. But they absolutely needed to have it more controlled.

 

[onemilemore]

Agreed. In addition, it's just in Paige's DNA to push herself to see just how good she can do. And so she went for putts on 17 and 18 when layups would've been understandable.

As to the conflict with Steve, it looked like he interrupted he just as she was in her routine and about to throw her (final) putt. HUGE faux pas, there. Just speculating, but I suspect THAT bothered her more than whatever he actually said...

The word "unprofessional" was used. More than once.

 

[Zanguini]

Big Sexy Commentary Destroyer anyone?

 

[BuiltTooLong]

The word "unprofessional" was used. More than once.

Nobody likes to be interrupted during their routine and she is justified in getting pissy. HOWEVER... a little awareness and maturity on her part, would've changed the narrative from an unsavory ending story, to a more polished & memorable finish for all the fans and spectators.

This wasn't a rated round and she had a 5 stroke lead going into the final hole. If it were me and I was trying to grow the sport for women, I believe I would be a little more conscious of that fact and embrace the show.

 

[SD86]

Nobody likes to be interrupted during their routine and she is justified in getting pissy. HOWEVER... a little awareness and maturity on her part, would've changed the narrative from an unsavory ending story, to a more polished & memorable finish for all the fans and spectators.

This wasn't a rated round and she had a 5 stroke lead going into the final hole. If it were me and I was trying to grow the sport for women, I believe I would be a little more conscious of that fact and embrace the show.

It's ultimately the player's choice. When Ricky won his first World Championship, he intentionally laid up in order to have the last drop-in putt. If memory serves me correctly, Paige did not do that at the 2017 Worlds (I could be wrong and will hear corrections gladly). And Paige did not wish to do that at last weekend's tournament (maybe she wanted to show off those awesome Paige Pierce Deputy putters :thmbup.

 

[lyleoross]

It's ultimately the player's choice. When Ricky won his first World Championship, he intentionally laid up in order to have the last drop-in putt. If memory serves me correctly, Paige did not do that at the 2017 Worlds (I could be wrong and will hear corrections gladly). And Paige did not wish to do that at last weekend's tournament (maybe she wanted to show off those awesome Paige Pierce Deputy putters :thmbup.

I understand that what Steve did was unprofessional in Paige's eyes, but go watch sport on TV. It's all managed, timeouts, etc. to get maximum exposure. The men's side is more used to this and the guys on the card work together. I'm still standing by Steve. I suspect he was caught off guard by the situation. He isn't stupid to want to maximize the impact. He has sponsors paying for that.

I'm going to sort of disagree that it's Paige's decision. As I wrote above, every major sport manages these things to some degree. Maybe it should be Paige's decision, but pro sport doesn't work that way.

 

[DavidSauls]

I understand that what Steve did was unprofessional in Paige's eyes, but go watch sport on TV. It's all managed, timeouts, etc. to get maximum exposure. The men's side is more used to this and the guys on the card work together. I'm still standing by Steve. I suspect he was caught off guard by the situation. He isn't stupid to want to maximize the impact. He has sponsors paying for that.

I'm going to sort of disagree that it's Paige's decision. As I wrote above, every major sport manages these things to some degree. Maybe it should be Paige's decision, but pro sport doesn't work that way.

Perhaps just growing pains for the sport?

In spectator sports, where players earn serious money, they get it not because they're good at the sport---there's not a lot of inherent value in shooting a basketball---but because they're entertainers. This gives them certain obligations, written or unwritten, for dealing with fans and media.

Steve's trying to make disc golf a spectator sport. The players are used to it being a participation sport, but also want more money. Perhaps it was this clash, and neither being terribly experienced with it, that caused the friction.

 

[SD86]

I understand that what Steve did was unprofessional in Paige's eyes, but go watch sport on TV. It's all managed, timeouts, etc. to get maximum exposure. The men's side is more used to this and the guys on the card work together. I'm still standing by Steve. I suspect he was caught off guard by the situation. He isn't stupid to want to maximize the impact. He has sponsors paying for that.

I'm going to sort of disagree that it's Paige's decision. As I wrote above, every major sport manages these things to some degree. Maybe it should be Paige's decision, but pro sport doesn't work that way.

Unfortunately, you're right. I remember an NFL kickoff return for a TD being taken away because TV had not come back to the game from their commercials.

Perhaps just growing pains for the sport?

In spectator sports, where players earn serious money, they get it not because they're good at the sport---there's not a lot of inherent value in shooting a basketball---but because they're entertainers. This gives them certain obligations, written or unwritten, for dealing with fans and media.

Steve's trying to make disc golf a spectator sport. The players are used to it being a participation sport, but also want more money. Perhaps it was this clash, and neither being terribly experienced with it, that caused the friction.

Again, I think if Steve had discussed laying up with Paige as everyone was walking up to the green, instead of as she took her stance to putt, this would be a "non issue". I suspect it's past tense with all involved now.

 

[onemilemore]

I understand that what Steve did was unprofessional in Paige's eyes, but go watch sport on TV. It's all managed, timeouts, etc. to get maximum exposure. The men's side is more used to this and the guys on the card work together. I'm still standing by Steve. I suspect he was caught off guard by the situation. He isn't stupid to want to maximize the impact. He has sponsors paying for that.

I'm going to sort of disagree that it's Paige's decision. As I wrote above, every major sport manages these things to some degree. Maybe it should be Paige's decision, but pro sport doesn't work that way.

I think if Steve asks about it before the round then I agree with you. But in the context of the weekend, it showed poor situational awareness. Paige had been struggling with her putt all round and is a competitor until the end. To ask her, right before she lines up the putt, if she is going for it was ill-timed. Plus, I have a hard time understanding why he even needed to know. Just watch what she's doing. If she makes it, cool, announce she won. If she misses, then announce after the tap-in. The only thing knowing her intention did in the situation was annoy her. It really didn't add to the "show" aspect of things.

 

[biscoe]

I'm going to sort of disagree that it's Paige's decision. As I wrote above, every major sport manages these things to some degree. Maybe it should be Paige's decision, but pro sport doesn't work that way.

when the dollars are there they will indeed provide the marching orders, currently however it was a bad move on Steve's part.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

So much petty negativity on this thread. I'd just like to let Steve know that I enjoyed this event more than any I watched this year, and I appreciate what he's has been able to accomplish in a short amount of time with limited resources, and against a lot of obstacles.

 

[_MTL_]

I understand that what Steve did was unprofessional in Paige's eyes, but go watch sport on TV. It's all managed, timeouts, etc. to get maximum exposure. The men's side is more used to this and the guys on the card work together. I'm still standing by Steve. I suspect he was caught off guard by the situation. He isn't stupid to want to maximize the impact. He has sponsors paying for that.

I'm going to sort of disagree that it's Paige's decision. As I wrote above, every major sport manages these things to some degree. Maybe it should be Paige's decision, but pro sport doesn't work that way.

Could not disagree more.

You are talking about team sports, not golf. Never once in 25 years in watching televised golf have I ever seen anything like this.

Go to a golf tournament - the commentators are walking with the players and don't speak to them or interview them. In the situations they do speak, it's conversational, not anything about what is going on.

I don't believe in the silly stuff like nicing a disc suddenly makes it hit a tree, but this is just one of those situations like that. There are certain unwritten rules you don't do. And one of them is don't talk to a player about execution / strategy while they are playing.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I think if Steve asks about it before the round then I agree with you. But in the context of the weekend, it showed poor situational awareness.

To ask before the round would be WAY worse in my opinion. Maybe if she had a double digit lead going into the final round, but it was a clean slate, so you can't assume she's just going to win, not to mention by large enough of a margin to have a showcase final putt.

Does anyone think that Ricky or Paul would of had a problem w/the tour manager trying to highlight their victory putt? I'm guessing they have enough situational awareness to understand the intent is in their best interest.

Frequently you hear Terry Miller mention that players will often check w/him prior to throwing to make sure the media is ready for it. This is an adjustment for those players, but its one they are happy to make because they are cognizant of the product they are trying to create exposure for.

 

[lyleoross]

Could not disagree more.

You are talking about team sports, not golf. Never once in 25 years in watching televised golf have I ever seen anything like this.

Go to a golf tournament - the commentators are walking with the players and don't speak to them or interview them. In the situations they do speak, it's conversational, not anything about what is going on.

I don't believe in the silly stuff like nicing a disc suddenly makes it hit a tree, but this is just one of those situations like that. There are certain unwritten rules you don't do. And one of them is don't talk to a player about execution / strategy while they are playing.

So, start times and positioning of players isn't managed for maximum impact? Yes, no Marshall has ever called to a player and asked them to wait to putt. I don't watch enough ball golf to know if players manage the final putts themselves. That is, maybe, like with the male side, the PGA players manage this?

Every aspect of player behavior in ball golf is fairly managed, including time outs for ads. No player is gonna make a world class putt or drive unless the cameras are rolling. I grant, delays and technology gives them advantages in terms of play and stoppage, but I suspect, if a camera wasn't ready to go, someone would ask that player to hold his putt.

I'm not saying that what Steve did was great or that he couldn't have handled it better. Just that he put big picture over the immediate situation. That doesn't surprise me, even if it was a faux pas. I would suspect that Steve learned something and wouldn't be surprised to find that he's apologized.

 

[lyleoross]

I think if Steve asks about it before the round then I agree with you. But in the context of the weekend, it showed poor situational awareness. Paige had been struggling with her putt all round and is a competitor until the end. To ask her, right before she lines up the putt, if she is going for it was ill-timed. Plus, I have a hard time understanding why he even needed to know. Just watch what she's doing. If she makes it, cool, announce she won. If she misses, then announce after the tap-in. The only thing knowing her intention did in the situation was annoy her. It really didn't add to the "show" aspect of things.

I agree, Steve's timing was bad. I suspect he thought she would wait or lay up and all of the sudden realized she wss going for it and wanted to give her the chance to go last. It feels to me like too many are feeling like Steve put his needs over Paige's. I view it as if he was putting her celebratory moment first, or that he wanted that to happen for her. Yes, he goofed, but I find it hard to think he was being self absorbed.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Every aspect of player behavior in ball golf is fairly managed, including time outs for ads. No player is gonna make a world class putt or drive unless the cameras are rolling. I grant, delays and technology gives them advantages in terms of play and stoppage, but I suspect, if a camera wasn't ready to go, someone would ask that player to hold his putt.

Actually they do not hold people from attempting putts or any other shots for that matter. In fact the marshals are usually pushing the players to play faster. They have multiple cameras on every hole and if something happens while they're on commercial, or covering another player, you will here the announcer say, "This was a moment ago" or "This was what caused that roar you heard during So-and-so's shot." Probably the only time the players ask about or are told the cameras are on them is when they want to smoke a cigarette.