~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[slowplastic]

The hammer swing looks like you are connected, just aligned to hit to the right. Just need to be bit more closed.

Oh I understand.

Yes that's true, I am not set up to throw along the line on that carpet, I am turned at an angle that I wouldn't hit anything and could be viewed ok by my phone. If I was set up for release along that line I would have been very closed to the camera.

 

[RandyC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLSr9cQv1js&feature=youtu.be
See the difference?

 

[slowplastic]

I do now, thanks. Hammering through a wall perpendicular to the line so you release down the line.

I understand now I probably would have had 45 degree griplocks.

 

[UhhNegative]

My thought process was "grumble grumble I can dingle arm a hammer"...yeah I can. I filmed it, elephant walk, all good. Go to swing it on stomach/chest high plane, examine footage...collapsed upper arm, shoulder up. Yup.

Ok so with SW's marked up image of shoulder past hip I managed to feel how to get my shoulder forward more, it is probably like a 2-3" difference so far but it feels better. In the battering ram I could feel it on the Feldy angle but not very much on the higher angles before. With the shoulder forward I can leverage the battering ram way better at high arm slots.

So here's the hammer with the shoulder more forward. It feels different than leverage I get on a baseball bat with 2 hands, it feels slower/more drawn out but like there will be momentum. It's impossible to get to this same spot with 2 hands like a golf club or baseball bat, so it's a different feeling than anything I'd done. But I definitely don't feel T-rex arms like on some throws today when trying to keep the arm down.

It looks much better and is definitely not what I have been doing.

Problems?

https://vimeo.com/291042089

https://vimeo.com/291042089^^^^^^DELETE THE ^^^^^ FOR BIGGER VIDEO

This looks way better to me

than this

I think it should feel like a longer, heavier lever in that first one than in your previous throw.

 

[Mocheez]

Try swinging your elbow really, really high. It will probably feel awkward at first but should allow you to get better power transfer between your shoulder and elbow.

Then you will know what you need to do with your shoulder to get into a lower swing plane.

 

[slowplastic]

Try swinging your elbow really, really high. It will probably feel awkward at first but should allow you to get better power transfer between your shoulder and elbow.

Then you will know what you need to do with your shoulder to get into a lower swing plane.

When I go super high with the elbow, what feels like 90 degrees to spine, I feel WAY more connection. I feel the muscles on the top and side of the shoulder really tighten up, and like my arm has to stay at that angle. With a hammer it looks like the McBeth/Paige Pierce arm slot.

I feel like I can tighten those same muscles and keep that angle with a lower elbow position too, whereas initially that was lost at that angle.

It feels like I really tighten the deltoid muscle to keep the arm locked like that, does that make sense?

 

[slowplastic]

Basically what I'm asking is should it feel like the deltoid is really engaged and the upper arm is locked, or should there be an element of "loose/relaxed" to the arm?

 

[Mocheez]

When I go super high with the elbow, what feels like 90 degrees to spine, I feel WAY more connection. I feel the muscles on the top and side of the shoulder really tighten up, and like my arm has to stay at that angle. With a hammer it looks like the McBeth/Paige Pierce arm slot.

I feel like I can tighten those same muscles and keep that angle with a lower elbow position too, whereas initially that was lost at that angle.

It feels like I really tighten the deltoid muscle to keep the arm locked like that, does that make sense?

I would keep the elbow really high, but drop your shoulder to get into a lower swing plane. I am not sure why you are trying to drop the elbow into a lower angle. If it feels more connected at a higher angle, then go with it.

 

[Mocheez]

Basically what I'm asking is should it feel like the deltoid is really engaged and the upper arm is locked, or should there be an element of "loose/relaxed" to the arm?

That's a good question. I would think that loose/relaxed is probably the healthier answer. SW has always said that it should feel like your upper arm is being pulled towards the target.

 

[slowplastic]

That's a good question. I would think that loose/relaxed is probably the healthier answer. SW has always said that it should feel like your upper arm is being pulled towards the target.

With my throwing shoulder ahead of my plant hip I'm feeling this now, it it feels much more connected and powerful.

 

[Lumberjack504]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLSr9cQv1js&feature=youtu.be
See the difference?

Looks like your stance is setup facing left center field but you're roping one to dead center.

 

[slowplastic]

Looks like your stance is setup facing left center field but you're roping one to dead center.

Exactly. Diagonal stance and hit the power zone...except he's going to be roping the hammer to dead center.

That's my problem...I was using the hammer like a bat...to hold on to and hit the ball where I wanted. Randy's video showed me that would result in griplocking way behind me, and I should have the arc so I release the hammer instead.

If you have ever seen an MLB player's bat slip, well that's exactly what I would have done. They throw the bat over the dugout and into the crowd like 15 rows up. But if they hit the ball it would have been to the power alley like 20 degrees in from the foul line.

Edit: Many of these are on awkward/reaching swings so the bat release is kind of weird...this one slips out on a swing he thought he had so this is where it's aligned to go:

https://youtu.be/-Oq0fQJaQY0?t=96

 

[slowplastic]

Got to try the elbow/arm slot yesterday. My balance regressed but I was hitting my lines like crazy all day, very few shanks.

It was more ingrained today so I could concentrate on balance. My hand still crept up and I realized I had to WAIT to swing...felt like I was letting my torso open before using the arm. Like how it's "belt buckle to the pitcher" before/when swinging a bat. My arm slot looked a lot better then, had great results, but I had to do it slowly with low effort. Felt very efficient though, was lacing fairways through the woods at low effort.

So here's a standstill, I think the best form I've had. Felt like 60% power for a 300' Comet, and like nothing. The X-step is a low power putter shot to show my balance. Again if I go too hard it would usually result in me swinging too early into the throw so hand would go up.

Is this finally the way to get my arm happening?

https://vimeo.com/291404678

https://vimeo.com/291404961

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

As someone who follows all the form threads but doesn't chime in much, take this for what it's worth. I think this is the best I have seen from you.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking better! :thmbup:

Still need more forward tilt shoulders more over the knees and feel like the front shoulder rotates outside front knee and right over front foot. And you are not turned back enough, or are over-rotated through the contact point like Randy's vid.

 

[slowplastic]

Looking better! :thmbup:

Thanks! I felt like I just had to wait and wait to use the arm. Kind of how in my FH I lock the upper arm and wait until it "feels right" to sling the disc. Or with a bat I lock my torso until the bat wants to start getting leveraged, which happens in front of my body.

I've been too eager to use my arm and that led to collapsing then catching up and all sorts of things. Going to take a bit to get used to this but I'm happy to finally see my arm look better.

Still need more forward tilt shoulders more over the knees and feel like the front shoulder rotates outside front knee and right over front foot.

Forward tilt as in start more athletically with shoulders over knees, as in heel/toe ways?

Then I can feel how getting my lead shoulder forward of my torso rather than behind the hip will help to leverage the rest of the arm. That's why the standstill shot felt good, just that inch or two more forward from before with the shoulder helped it. Good to be reminded to keep getting it out front for leverage.

And you are not turned back enough, or are over-rotated through the contact point like Randy's vid.

This is what I want to make sure of. I felt like I was finally clearing/rotating before swinging, although not perfect obviously. This is how I had to wait to swing the arm.

So I can see that I'm a bit more open at the hit point than pro's. So essentially I'm early releasing or not getting the full hit. This is either from rotating too much before swinging...or from not being offset/closed/diagonal enough in setup.

So this picture below is a comparison of McBeth with Josh Donaldson, mirrored so he's swinging lefty. Both at the hit point, although goals are different with hitting a ball vs. throwing the lever/disc.

It seems though in both cases they are open to nearly perpendicular to their initial stance at full impact? So it should feel like I let my torso open before swinging...let that start the arc, then add to it. I'm aware that I was relatively too open for my release point from these images...but I don't think this is the wrong path to keep exploring for my feel/sequence. I think the idea of "closed shoulder" was keeping me from letting the torso open forward, as I was mistaking it for closed body in feel. So maybe more closed/offset setup and let myself clear then swing?

 

[sidewinder22]

One handed swing vs two, different swing center. Bowl backhand.

 

[UhhNegative]

Looking better! :thmbup:

Still need more forward tilt shoulders more over the knees and feel like the front shoulder rotates outside front knee and right over front foot. And you are not turned back enough, or are over-rotated through the contact point like Randy's vid.

Like he's leaning back a little bit at/through the hit?

It's almost like SP is getting the lower spine braced very well but then leaving the top of the spine behind which doesn't let the shoulder swing through over the toes.

 

[slowplastic]

Like he's leaning back a little bit at/through the hit?


It's almost like SP is getting the lower spine braced very well but then leaving the top of the spine behind which doesn't let the shoulder swing through over the toes.

I think more shoulders over knees throughout the throw/setup, but also this forward drive with shoulder is needed to get leverage on the arm. The red line is spine angle, yellow line is just drawn vertically to show how they all have their shoulder in front of the torso/hip. I feel like I'm slightly in front on some throws, but it's not anywhere near as exaggerated as the pro's have.

 

[UhhNegative]

If the spine it tilted targetward, the shoulders are necessarily in front of the torso. It's all the same thing: shoulders over knees/forward spine tilt. The tilted spiral! The top of your spiral is getting stuck/left behind, I think.