~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[sidewinder22]

Also don't be afraid to let your rear heel on the ground as you would for a squat, the important part is just leading the heel up/forward before the toes from the instep(eversion). This will help get you more balanced/stacked and engage your bigger leg/core muscles. Often whether the rear touches down is related to speed, with faster linear speed keeping the heel up more.

 

[slowplastic]

Very good point. I have been consciously avoiding heel-down with the left foot, which led to weight over my rear toes (and I never realized this wasn't ideal). When I change my balance point just walking through the steps in the living room, I can feel the different balance allows for the butt wipe drill hip rotation more clearly (front hip clearing back), as well as my head being in a better position. Of course that will have to translate into the throw at more speed.

 

[slowplastic]

I've been trying to improve my stride direction, pump timing, and weight shift over the last while. It's been a slow process but it's feeling more natural. As well I've been trying to keep the left arm in/on the thigh when I start to shift. I wasn't planning on filming today so the quality and angles are pretty terrible, but I was feeling the shift nicely so I thought I should. The first throw shown is ~400' into a pretty stiff headwind. Because of the junky angles the first one shows the swing better, the second shows the X-step better. I was also throwing pretty cleanly on the hit point, able to hold a mid on a mild hyzer ~330' so things were going well.

Am I still shifting a bit too late? Did a poor shoulder/swing thing creep back into my form? Are there issues with my plant knee bend, or does this mean something? Anything else?

https://vimeo.com/186334391

https://vimeo.com/186334598

 

[sidewinder22]

Your x-step/stride is not helping you plant upright balanced on your front leg(or rear leg) and ready to swing more extended. You need to turn your hips and shoulders further back and extend your arm further back/wider(you are hugging and trying to shift from the front), so you can plant more upright and shift from behind you extending the backswing/transition further back and can swing from your weight - see one leg drill, turbo encabulator and best downswing weightshift.

Notice how KJ is more upright/balanced/centered and stacked knees under hips and turned further back/wider in the door frame and about to crush the can with the front leg/foot turned in. Both you guys have your front heel airborne, but you have already spent your leverage off the rear leg and opened your hips, KJ's front shoulder is still massively leveraged through his rear leg there so not only is he turned/loaded further back, but his weight will shift more forward/centered/stacked as well when his front heel plants with his weight behind it.

 

[slowplastic]

Wow, thank you. What would have been so subtle for me to notice I now can see, to an extent. Was I carrying my momentum too quickly in front/inside of my left foot during the X-step, or is it a combination of that and too wide of a step? I felt like I was riding the momentum of the skip step in these throws rather than really driving off the foot. I realize in the Turbo video you are showing a distinct load and shift from the rear foot.

I can see now that my plant foot is extended too far ahead with the hip too neutral. A more extended hip load and reach (while wider) should help to keep the front side closed into the plant?

I can also see that I am not shifting from behind as you say...KJ's right hip is driven back at the brace and that is not occurring in my throw, instead just my left side moves forward. As well I stand up and step back after the throw, rather than rotating around my plant in a controlled manner, indicating I am perhaps not balanced on top of the plant. I understand conceptually how my lower body should act as more of a counterweight for the throw, and I can see it in pro video, but I need to make that happen to sling out my arm.

 

[sidewinder22]

Right, you can see KJ is pretty much in the position I start the turbo encabulator - on toes and heels up, KJ could shift into the front heel/hip and still be able to quickly shift back to the rear heel and back and forth, so he has not over committed his posture and balance. He catches his front hip/weight more forward and can turn/shift/clear it quicker. You end up trying to catch it, but never make it because you turned open and/or stride too long.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm gonna try to suggest what really clicked for me recently:

1. To stride forward alone - it's as simple as pushing forward into the brace so that your back foot will naturally drag towards your plant heel completely unweighted. If you get that stride too wide, you can't do this motion - it's pretty self correcting.

Get that core feeling and stride locked in... just this drill, not throwing or opening your plant foot or extending the arm.

2. NOW, we add this: The backswing initiates by turning the body back with the hips and for me this was the key: grab a bar / stick / bat - something and shoulder it like a squat bar. Turning back with this "squat bar" on your shoulders plays a trick on your brain that says, "How can I shoulder a weight, turn back - load in with the weight balanced and come through with the weight balanced?"

this is the goal IMO of the 1-leg drill. You will find that there's a point where your brace knee has to stay INSIDE the frame, over the toes for the 1-leg drill to work. Another really great self-correcting drill.

If you ONLY do step 1 - striding forward, the squat bar won't want to square up facing backwards and come through with the same kind of power. To keep these 2 steps attached to the disc moving forward smooth and flat I have to keep my arm extremely loose and the backswing low.

Watching the last videos, I think you're needing to get into step 2 more.

 

[slowplastic]

I think things improved a bit today with some of these aspects, but I think I am still not shifting from behind properly. I should do some one leg drill throws like both of you are suggesting and make sure my front hip clears back.

But, I tried to focus on a later load with my hips and planting into a closed front side. My stride may still be too wide but I was able to get on top of the plant on the throw (and load up on the rear foot during the X-step rather than gliding over it). I feel this is in the right direction. But, my front hip looks like it is not clearing back and my front knee does not extend to do so...is the one leg drill the best way to try to incorporate this feeling? As well my torso ends up coming through a little, likely related to not clearing my hips back? For reference I was throwing putters ~300' and Z Comet ~360', which are good distances for me but not increased distance. I felt a throw or two where the disc almost pushed off my palm and ejected very quickly, but these went ~5 degrees right and hit trees so I couldn't see the results. I feel I'm close to putting some things together that will finally bump my distance level.

https://vimeo.com/187093240

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Take this for what it's worth but HUB pointed out that I wan't turning my hips back very far so I started exaggerating my hip turn. It seems I was reaching back by turning my shoulders, which then turned my hips. Now I am working on initiating the reachback by turning my hips. This hasn't yielded any distance increase yet but I can't throw very often with my schedule. I hope this is going to propel me past my current plateau.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

SlowP - looks really good for the most part.

You are getting to the right spot! Booyah!

Okay, so the issues as I see them:

You so nicely put that disc on the line in the backswing at a nice height...

... and then you bring that sucker forward over a roller coaster! I know this issue well and it really helped me to emmulate SW22's throw - where he looks like he's throwing a hammer or something really heavy.

I worked with a guy last week who was doing this same thing, and I handed him his bag and made him swing it back and forth to feel the line it needs to be on.

I think a more hip turned throw allows you stay looser... it's helped me:

 

[slowplastic]

Haha yeah I agree with the . I am still getting the disc up over my elbow but it's at least in a different position than it used to be...I used to isolate the right shoulder in the socket (I don't know any body words!) rather than swinging around my spine. At least now I can get to that elbow forward position but I need to "stay on" the disc and get over it in the power pocket. When I have tried to knock that out of my form I throw hyzer angles that worm burn 50' in front of me. I guess I should keep doing that and get it right...obviously it's something the pro's don't do in their throws.

Both of you mentioned the hip turn. I can see that in that gif as well as in KJ's recently posted video from SW22, in both of those the hips do rotate backward a bit more during the load. In my recent video I managed to load and stay a bit closed of neutral, but I'm still not turned as far back. I will try to exaggerate this more, it's something I've been cautious with because it's taken me so long to adjust to striding targetwards up the teepad rather than walking too backwards.

 

[sidewinder22]

Get your head/chin UP - so it's out of the way to easily turn/pivot the rest of your body further back and stay more upright stacked. If you had camera from behind the tee you would likely see your front shoulder is too far over your rear toes in the backswing and too far behind your front heel swinging forward. Keep your shoulder swinging back and forth stacked over your toes.

 

[Mocheez]

Get your left shoulder and elbow tucked in more. Your upper arm is still dragging behind the brace of your body.

 

[sidewinder22]

2. NOW, we add this: The backswing initiates by turning the body back with the hips and for me this was the key: grab a bar / stick / bat - something and shoulder it like a squat bar. Turning back with this "squat bar" on your shoulders plays a trick on your brain that says, "How can I shoulder a weight, turn back - load in with the weight balanced and come through with the weight balanced?"

this is the goal IMO of the 1-leg drill. You will find that there's a point where your brace knee has to stay INSIDE the frame, over the toes for the 1-leg drill to work. Another really great self-correcting drill.

If you ONLY do step 1 - striding forward, the squat bar won't want to square up facing backwards and come through with the same kind of power. To keep these 2 steps attached to the disc moving forward smooth and flat I have to keep my arm extremely loose and the backswing low.

Watching the last videos, I think you're needing to get into step 2 more.

This is what HUB is explaining, stack your body posture upright like it's got 200lbs over your shoulders(and your head over your shoulders) and turn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-douOneC40#t=3m15s

 

[slowplastic]

Ahh that makes sense. Getting the chin up lets me get that head tilt that I can see KJ do in that still shot above, and I always think of Ricky doing. Makes a lot of sense for fitting together the stacked feeling HUB is describing with a bigger load up. I'll also work on getting that left side IN, and fixing my swing plane (very crucial). Lots of things for me to keep working at for a bit. I got some throws in yesterday and got a couple of these things working together and did unload some quite long shots...in fact I don't even know the distance, but it was good. I'll keep up with these things and hopefully get it together.

 

[slowplastic]

Ok, so it's been dry and warm for the last couple of weeks and I can actually get my throws back to how they were before the winter gave me all sorts of grip and footing issues.

I don't need a full analysis on this, I know my upper body stuff still needs fixing (disc is drifting a bit too high/above elbow still, but I think it's a little improved), and I'm not getting my left arm in, still!

But, I've tried to be more stacked/upright on my strides, over my toes, and plant with a late/closed hip. I'm hitting my lines more easily. Let me know if this is looking better/ok. For reference this throw was ~420' with a Destroyer into a mild wind (with about 5' elevation help), I was throwing fairways in the 350-375' range consistently today quite easily.

https://vimeo.com/208744411

Is my head drifting forward at the end because I'm not supporting it on my plant leg? Is this all to do with getting even more chin up/head tilt on reachback? I can feel going through it slowly without a disc that a tilted head on reachback leads to a supported head on the followthrough...but it's not happening on the throws yet.

 

[slowplastic]

Also, should my plant knee be extending for the "shift from behind"/buttwipe drill? Is it dangerous what I'm doing right now? My right knee feels a bit tired but I'm not sure if it's from snowboarding or this.

 

[billyjacko]

I don't have much I can help with (you've seen where I'm at ) but this thread is awesome! I'd say you need to get that plant leg extended at some point. Seabas said this in my thread and it helped out a ton;

See how Nate keeps his front hip/leg more stacked and closed into the plant and is then able to clear it by extending the front knee. You are planting with your front hip open/not stacked and never extend the front knee to brace and clear from on top your hip. Your front knee remains in the same bend and your front foot pressure rolls over to the outside edge of the foot and spins out as your hip is leaking outside your posture.

Also see how Nate's rear hip is more stacked over the rear ankle = more leveraged forward move. And his rear arm is in tight already = more weight forward.

Check out the freeze frame at 12s of your video. http://imgur.com/a/uyC7D
I'm not the expert, so take it all with a grain of salt

I don't think the pictures help you here, but I thought I'd leave them for reference.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah your thread is what reminded me of that issue...it's really helpful to cross reference other people who are in similar distance plateaus. There's just so many things that have to be right to consistently break the 400' barrier.

 

[billyjacko]

I don't know if this will work for you, but what I'm concentrating on is driving everything on the left side down (like where I was referencing Paige Pierce's 'karate chop') while trying to hold (or catch) the weight against the inside of my plant foot. It's not like your going to plant with your leg straight and actually pole vault. You plant with closed posture with your knee more under you, but instead of just catching all that weight from behind you against the knee (what it looks like your doing), you do it with the inside of your foot. The only way you can do that is by extending the leg, and the hips will clear naturally. http://imgur.com/a/zCtSD

From my understanding, that pop of the leg straightening is what transfers all your weight from behind you up from the ground to the disc. I'm guessing with the knee bent your only transferring from knee up leaving behind a bunch of energy. But I'm a newb, so this could all be wrong.