~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[sidewinder22]

:clap:

 

[slowplastic]

:clap:

Seriously, thank you for putting the videos together and then also explaining them so that after 10 times over like a year watching them I finally get what it is! I swear I've hung from a door many times before but last night it clicked and I understood why I couldn't reach back into the shift.

So get this ingrained into my form (along with stop tipping past my toes...), fix my arm planes, and then that will get me some more distance?

After so many changes in the past I guess I'm so used to adjusting my form that I could already hit my lines for the most part. Tons of park jobs with slow discs!

 

[sidewinder22]

Your stance is slightly too wide as your rear foot drags straight forward/slightly left instead of everting/sliding more behind you to the right. That will give you more swing more space/power pocket and extension/smash between your rear foot counter and throwing hand through impact/hit - see Hershyzer leg counter, Bottles and Cans and Turbo Encabulator.

Blake T told me that you basically want to create a Golden Spiral Arc on the disc from the power pocket out so your arm lever arcs releasing forward stack or couple the widening arcs in a way the head end of the disc arc goes from slow as long as possible to boom and accelerates the disc much faster than your hand, and then he did the Water Bottle Drill. This is something that only you will know how to do with your own geometry and feel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_spiral

Great finish position though:

 

[slowplastic]

This is crazy. I'm seeing all the throws and drills differently now after understanding the "from behind" finally. I mean I thought that I understood it before as how to get your front hip moving backward at the brace...but I clearly didn't. What has me equally excited is that I can now see it in baseball swings. I can't wait to hit some balls hopefully farther than I have before. I thought I was bracing my batting swing correctly before but I think I had no idea how to shift my weight correctly to counter the bat's mass.

I am understanding what you're saying with stance width, and causing my foot to drag rather than counterweight...and how that will relate to swing arc length. Of course I didn't identify it, but it makes sense now.

I'm very happy any time any aspect of my disc golf game can be compared to how Eagle throws, but I don't quite understand this finish position. When I threw that shot I was happy with it...it was a very easy balanced hyzer flip midrange ~330', but when I looked at the video I saw I stepped to the left afterwards and assumed I was out of balance. Eagle smashes that shot with a run up on a hyzer and ends up in the same position. When do you end up in the step to the left position vs. step through? Is the hyzer release what tilts the body/spine left and causes that type of a follow through vs. a flat or anhyzer that will result in popping the left side straight around the brace leg? Initially I thought it might be power input but Eagle throws that shot real hard and doesn't step all the way through.

 

[sidewinder22]

Right the only difference in a baseball swing is you swing with two hands vs one hand, so you have to close your shoulder to release the bat straight one handed just like a disc golf throw because your one arm is going to be pulled out wider by releasing the swing tossing the bat or hammer or disc otherwise you are going to hook to the right field batting lefty stance with right hand(RHBH). Basically your shoulders lever becomes a longer parallel lever with the arm(wide upper arm) vs two hands where the shoulders are perpendicular to the arm levers/narrow upper arm angles.

The finish depends on where your swing momentum is aimed to and your balance to it as it pulls you into the finish. I sometimes can't tell if my rear leg comes through or not unless I see the video or photos, it feels pretty much the same(in balance on front leg) and just slight difference in balance.

 

[slowplastic]

This whole "from behind" thing is still blowing my mind. I can understand now how people who are just naturally "good at sports" can instantly do whatever activity with great success. I think the only time I've ever shifted my weight like this before was for wrist shots in hockey, but that's so different because I felt I was delaying the leverage on the stick to flex it and build the snap when on dry ground...and with skates on you just have to do it right or you're going to end up using your pads. Now I can see how the same shift correlates to other activities (but with a much shorter lever...).

I'm still going slow with the backhands but it's great. I tried to ace run an elevated basket 270' hole with a Comet, ended up throwing it 340-350' instead. I'm not throwing farther than I have before, but I'm doing it so lazily to get the form ingrained and those throws are happening often.

I'm trying to do the "from behind" shift in my forehands now, and be more cautious of my arm/torso release. I was throwing no harder than 80% forehands today and was throwing farther than I have before...I was often throwing a touch more hyzer than intended though but discs were just cruising on a hyzer. I parked a 330' Teebird pure hyzer FH which I've never done before and it felt slow/lazy.

This video shows a flat FH with a River, a -2/2 type of flight for ~340' for reference. I think my weight shift is WAY better now, but I'm really trying to watch my arm slot. I have included a comparison to the last video still frames I showed before (same shirt?!)...I'm more balanced/upright and I am not leading with my arm as badly. I've also included a shot of McBeth at his release point. He has the disc lower/waist high but I think he's throwing a hyzer. I know this is better than before as it feels way easier, but am I still "snapping" my arm out there instead of leveraging or is this the right direction? Is my arm too high?

https://vimeo.com/217583162

 

[sidewinder22]

Much better.

 

[charmees]

This is crazy. I'm seeing all the throws and drills differently now after understanding the "from behind" finally. I mean I thought that I understood it before as how to get your front hip moving backward at the brace...but I clearly didn't.

Can you put it in the words, how do you understand the "from behind"?

 

[UhhNegative]

Can you put it in the words, how do you understand the "from behind"?

Yeah, slowplastic, I'd be interested to hear how you put this into words. I've also been chasing the elusive "shift from behind". I've felt it a few times and it feels magical when it happens, but I can't seem to recreate it very often.

 

[UP Mountain Man]

Watching the slo-mo baseball and the dg vids, while pondering the "from behind weight shift", and suddenly, I see it! Perhaps?

Looks to me like a sitting type motion going on? Kinda backwards and down, relatively square to your stance. Vs the way I've been futilely trying to figure it out. I've been trying to find it while shifting weight toward target. Left to right, vs front to back. Hmmm, even sounds like unbalanced/tipped vs balanced/stacked.

That's what I'm seeing, excited for rain to stop so I can try it out.

Griffey- :36

distance drives- :07, :17

Simon -:04

Kahlstrom - :18

Sidewinder- I bet you find him making this move on your own by now :-}

 

[slowplastic]

So the part that really clicked for me starts at 3:25 of this video. Focus on how he says the weight is on the inside of rear foot, where the tension in the leg is, how you can reach back while feeling that pressure/tension. Feeling how pushing with the rear leg helped me reach back in the same motion was when it really made sense.



This is how it feels in a throw...you are balanced over your feet but you drive your rear hip/left butt towards the target (the arrow is meant to be parallel to the ground) while the right arm is turning back. Don't focus on rotation forward, don't focus on shifting quickly, just push that left butt towards the target. When your right arm goes back it's pretty equal/opposite and you should be in great balance.

I then feel like I drive off my left instep in that direction and once my front foot is planted everything still rotates easily, but it automatically delays the reachback because the motion goes hand in hand with how you are turning your hips and the direction you are shifting your weight.

The important thing is do NOT think "walk backwards" or "face target with butt". It's the last step that you should feel this load on your left instep, feel the left thigh engage, and turn back to allow for this shift underneath/behind towards the target on line. The door frame drill helps you turn at the right time and feel how the reachback and shift are opposite and at the same time.

 

[slowplastic]

Watching the slo-mo baseball and the dg vids, while pondering the "from behind weight shift", and suddenly, I see it! Perhaps?

Looks to me like a sitting type motion going on? Kinda backwards and down, relatively square to your stance. Vs the way I've been futilely trying to figure it out. I've been trying to find it while shifting weight toward target. Left to right, vs front to back. Hmmm, even sounds like unbalanced/tipped vs balanced/stacked.

That's what I'm seeing, excited for rain to stop so I can try it out.

Griffey- :36

distance drives- :07, :17

Simon -:04

Kahlstrom - :18

Sidewinder- I bet you find him making this move on your own by now :-}

This is what I thought before, it's not it. That's the result of being in balance...the hips move back and counterweight.

For example in Griffey the "from behind" that is key to me is at 0:10-0:12 (drives left butt directly towards pitcher, behind right butt), and for Simon's net shot it's at 0:02-0:03.

 

[deyo7]

A million thumbs up button. Fantastic explanation, thank you. Your timing is impeccable for me.

 

[slowplastic]

Here's another image, I really feel like it's loading off your left instep straight at the target (which is behind the front foot), and directing your left butt/hip straight at the target. The upper arrow is meant to be his left butt (view blocked because of angle), not his right hip.

Once you've felt it, it's VERY obvious and reproducible.

 

[UP Mountain Man]

This is what I thought before, it's not it. That's the result of being in balance...the hips move back and counterweight.

For example in Griffey the "from behind" that is key to me is at 0:10-0:12 (drives left butt directly towards pitcher, behind right butt), and for Simon's net shot it's at 0:02-0:03.

Thanks for clearing that up, and also for the wonderful explanation above.

That makes me realize that what I spotted is actually how you properly catch the from behind weight shift. The transition into the second stage of butt wipe drill. A drill I could never do correctly. I have the first stage dialed, but could never wipe the right cheek back.Because I see it now, I never caught my weight, my left cheek just keeps moving to the right until my throw is little more than a failed attempt to catch my balance.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

The one that clicked for me was a video from the fairway of a bunch of throws, I can't find it now, and all comments about Paige Pierce's butt aside watching her butt move toward the target from the targets perspective.
Found this one of Avery from :06 to :09 watch his hips/butt. This opened a whole new feeling in door frame and made the Hershyzer drill totally feel correct.




Still working on the consistency and trying to get more than one "Hey that felt so right" type of throws every couple rounds but getting there.
Seems like a lot of this is back and forth with the drills, you start with some get balanced work forward, then have to go back and revisit old drills and feel the changes and maybe tweak something and re-progress through them again.

 

[UhhNegative]

Here's another image, I really feel like it's loading off your left instep straight at the target (which is behind the front foot), and directing your left butt/hip straight at the target. The upper arrow is meant to be his left butt (view blocked because of angle), not his right hip.

Once you've felt it, it's VERY obvious and reproducible.

I definitely feel the tension in my right hip (I'm LHBH) when I load into it, but when I go to move off of it, it almost always feels like the weight is out in front of me. Like it feels like I can only rotate out of loading my rear hip, not actually move it forward. Maybe that ties in with me reaching back too early and then swinging through too late.

 

[slowplastic]

I definitely feel the tension in my right hip (I'm LHBH) when I load into it, but when I go to move off of it, it almost always feels like the weight is out in front of me. Like it feels like I can only rotate out of loading my rear hip, not actually move it forward. Maybe that ties in with me reaching back too early and then swinging through too late.

Try the door frame drill like in the part of the video I linked from SW22. I used to feel the tension in my rear hip (due to internal rotation), now I am feeling a more tense outer thigh, like I just want to push off the leg. I'm still turning into the rear hip but I feel the thigh more than the internal hip rotation like I used to.

If you hang from the door frame with your front heel off the ground and like 80%+ of your weight on the rear instep you should feel a ton of tension on your outer rear thigh and you should just want to swing through a shot if you let go of the door frame and let your front heel plant.

 

[slowplastic]

SW22, in my most recent backhand video am I still scrunching/tensing my shoulder? I really haven't been able to sort out my swing plane thing, but I will concentrate on that now that the weight shift is feeling very natural. Even when I try to correct it a bit it is only "less bad" rather than the right thing...something may be fundamentally wrong still.

I think I need to relax both of my shoulders and think about swinging the disc lower and being very lazy with it...I have a feeling I'm still trying to "throw" the disc too much.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

One way to adjust the tendency to pull the disc forward, raising the leading shoulder and tensing the muscles - is to take your off arm hand (your left hand) and grab your right arm inside the elbow, as if you were crossing your arms.

Keep your off arm adjusted so that your throwing arm is locked at 90 degrees from your shoulders.

Now you have a feeling for the arm angle in the back swing, and how it should stay shaped as the disc comes forward and through the release. Most players will at some point or another have issues with that 90 degree angle between their humerus and their clavicle collapsing to some degree.

When I think of people asking, "what muscles do I engage" with the upper body, it's hard to explain that your firming up the frame of the 90 degree angle while still keeping the forearm loose and free - so we will often describe that as keeping the disc out wide in the backswing.

The result of the wide backswing is that we are getting our 90 degree angle set. If you collapse the 90 degree angle to "pull" the disc forward - that front side shoulder will raise or tighten.