[Axiom] Axiom Envy

[Toro71]

I created a simple testing gyroscopic model. High speed camera and drill. Measured the rate at which the discs slowed down/stopped spinning.

I did it for myself, I couldn't care less what others think. If I did I would have recorded it and put it on youtube.

If you don't care, then why are you posting 'data' on a public forum?

I am actually curious about results from a legit experiment, and am not trying to bash the effort per se. I'd like to know more about what it is you actually did here.

It sounds like you attached the discs (which discs..?) to a power drill, and then filmed them after releasing the trigger and letting them slow down, which is, um, problematic, to put it mildly.

 

[BirdieMachine]

If you don't care, then why are you posting 'data' on a public forum?

I am actually curious about results from a legit experiment, and am not trying to bash the effort per se. I'd like to know more about what it is you actually did here.

It sounds like you attached the discs (which discs..?) to a power drill, and then filmed them after releasing the trigger and letting them slow down, which is, um, problematic, to put it mildly.

It's far too complicated for me to try and explain all the details and I just don't feel like it, sorry bro. Run your own experiment and see what you find.

 

[Rogue9]

It's far too complicated for me to try and explain all the details and I just don't feel like it, sorry bro. Run your own experiment and see what you find.

Wow, I don't really care one way or the other, but you're chiming in with "scientific" findings, but then refusing to discuss it? Seriously, why did you even mention it if you're going to refuse to discuss it.

 

[prototypicalDave]

It's far too complicated for me to try and explain all the details and I just don't feel like it, sorry bro. Run your own experiment and see what you find.

 

[in4d]

MVP has said some of their molds have a higher weight ratio in the rim than others, ranging from 2-5 times as much weight/density depending on the mold.

But, regardless i don't throw the discs because of the GYRO tech, i just throw them because they are good discs, durable, consistent and i do well with them.

 

[hugheshilton]

But, regardless i don't throw the discs because of the GYRO tech, i just throw them because they are good discs, durable, consistent and i do well with them.

This was sort of my point. Whether or not gyro works or is just a marketing thing, MVP still makes very nice discs. I still think it's funny when people chime in with "gyro is science" as the reason you should buy MVP. You should buy MVP because they make great discs. Period.

 

[Menacewarf]

This was sort of my point. Whether or not gyro works or is just a marketing thing, MVP still makes very nice discs. I still think it's funny when people chime in with "gyro is science" as the reason you should buy MVP. You should buy MVP because they make great discs. Period.

And if you throw a bunch of em they do fly a bit different. If you wanna call that "gyro" or just MVP or whatever that's fine but between the, volt,amp, axis servo, envy; all my favorite molds I definitely see a difference from comparable discs. It's not gonna make you throw aces or auto birds but I personally like the way all those discs lock into lines better than say, eagle, sidewinder, buzzz, tl, and rhyno (forgive me if I dint compare to the right speed, stability or your personal pref). That's my experience.

 

[Rogue9]

This was sort of my point. Whether or not gyro works or is just a marketing thing, MVP still makes very nice discs. I still think it's funny when people chime in with "gyro is science" as the reason you should buy MVP. You should buy MVP because they make great discs. Period.

I have not seen anyone say you should buy them because of "gyro" tech. What I have seen is people come in and say it's just marketing. And then someone explains how that is not 100% true, how there actually is a significant amount more mass nearer the rim. And here is where all the haters get hung up. Then the person gives an example of how they notice a difference with an MVP disc. Then the skeptic and or hater takes this to mean that the MVP fan is preaching the gospel of gyro and that if you aren't one of the faithful then you're a noob.

Really all the MVP fan did was explain that there is actually more mass nearer the rim, and site an example from personal experience where they felt they noticed a difference.

That is really threatening to some (seems to be primarily Innova throwers) for some reason. Which is really odd. Because if you made a post about your love of the the teebird and how the notch on the wing makes it superior, you wouldn't get nearly the backlash, even though that might be harder to prove.

That said, MVP discs fly really nice, check them out.

 

[pask2155]

not to put fuel on the fire, but isn't there always

more mass nearer the rim

???

Like this is something that has always confused me... I get their rubber ring is more dense of plastic hence more weight... But isn't every disc like this (aside from blizzard)? Just because the rims on a disc is where the plastic is thicker or more dense? Hence GYRO being a default of every single disc ever made?

And for the record I LOVE MVP discs... it has nothing to do with GYRO... but everything to do with I get better scores when throwing them...

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

The difference is the black stuff on their rim is more dense than the regular plastic.

 

[Toro71]

This was sort of my point. Whether or not gyro works or is just a marketing thing, MVP still makes very nice discs. I still think it's funny when people chime in with "gyro is science" as the reason you should buy MVP. You should buy MVP because they make great discs. Period.

I throw the MVP discs that I do because I just like them, so I'm totally with you. I don't, like, consult a slide rule when I'm at the disc store.

My point w/r/t Bill Nye the Science Guy here is that 1) I am interested in the physics of disc flight, and also with how that is effected by altering to some degree the weight distribution and don't like being fed BS data and 2) I'm personally opposed to biased innuendo disguised as 'math' or (BS or even no actual) 'science.'

I have no problem with my, or anyone's, brand loyalty, but I have to take any claims of "proof" from this guy:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102063&highlight=strokes

with a grain of salt.

 

[Rdrees88]

So in the ENVY thread I'm going to derail this conversation and talk about the disc again.
Really enjoying it! Flies very true to the line you throw it.
First drive from a tee actually hit my first ever ace with my envy. 0 witnesses but I ain't even mad, ~300 ft nearly perfectly straight. Beginning of a beautiful friendship

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

I throw the MVP discs that I do because I just like them, so I'm totally with you. I don't, like, consult a slide rule when I'm at the disc store.

My point w/r/t Bill Nye the Science Guy here is that 1) I am interested in the physics of disc flight, and also with how that is effected by altering to some degree the weight distribution and don't like being fed BS data and 2) I'm personally opposed to biased innuendo disguised as 'math' or (BS or even no actual) 'science.'

I have no problem with my, or anyone's, brand loyalty, but I have to take any claims of "proof" from this guy:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102063&highlight=strokes

with a grain of salt.

LOL.


I believe someone is taking apart an Ion to see what the deal is. and weigh the different parts. and compare it to a normal disc.

 

[Future_Primitive]

not to put fuel on the fire, but isn't there always ???

Like this is something that has always confused me... I get their rubber ring is more dense of plastic hence more weight... But isn't every disc like this (aside from blizzard)? Just because the rims on a disc is where the plastic is thicker or more dense? Hence GYRO being a default of every single disc ever made?

In a very broad sense, yes every disc has a gyroscopic properties because they all have thin flight plates and thicker rims. The difference is MVP having a 2-part construction to their discs allows them to add more weight to the rim while leaving the flight plate the same weight.

For example, lets say the companies who do standard molding can make discs from 150 gm - 180 gm. But as they add more plastic to make it heavier that weight is equally dispersed throughout the entire piece of plastic. They can't just add it to the rim as it is a single mold. The plate gets a little heavier and the rim gets a little heavier equally.

Now lets say MVP can do 150-180 for this example. If they want to add more weight they have options. Make both the plate and rim heavier (like single molded discs) or keep the flight plate the same weight and just add more weight to the rim mold. This allows them to push more weight to the rim while keeping the flight plate the same weight. So this would in theory make them slightly more gyroscopic than other discs who can't just add weight to a specific portion of the disc.

Granted that is a very basic breakdown of the process but it highlights the slight differences between a single mold and a 2-pc molded disc. By having the rim created separately they have the ability to add weight to just the rim instead of making the entire disc heavier. :thmbup:

 

[Aim For The Chains]

the weight is added at the FURTHEST possible point from the center of the disc also. much different than single shot molded discs. No other disc has this and even another company has been quoted recently saying this technique could enhance gyroscopic precision of disc flights... ****s real'

 

[ZAMson]

not to put fuel on the fire, but isn't there always ???

Like this is something that has always confused me... I get their rubber ring is more dense of plastic hence more weight... But isn't every disc like this (aside from blizzard)? Just because the rims on a disc is where the plastic is thicker or more dense? Hence GYRO being a default of every single disc ever made?

And for the record I LOVE MVP discs... it has nothing to do with GYRO... but everything to do with I get better scores when throwing them...

The fattest heaviest part of a normal disc is the rim wall area that sits a few CM back from the nose. The 800 lb gorilla is in the 4th car of the rollercoaster. With MVP that rim wall area is as light as could be, and they've slammed all 800 lbs of gorilla into the front car, right at the disc edge.

 

[tbird888]

So are we ever going to see any video of the TeeSistor being thrown before Frankenstein-ing and after?

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

I'll still take it back to the actual disc. Of everything in my bag right now, I'd be the most upset if I lost the Envy. Feel, looks, performance... :thmbup:

I realized last night that I hadn't seen my Anode in a couple weeks -- it was hiding in the carport up against the wall where I forgot to pick it up. That used to be my favorite. I actually felt bad for the kicked-to-the-curb Anode... an actual emotion about a piece of plastic. So messed up...

 

[pask2155]

Anyone break an envy in yet? Does it keep it's hss and lose it's lss? It does it turn easy because if no bead? What's the deal?

 

[Toro71]

I'm torn, because I have this feeling that the Envy (and the Alias, for that matter) are going to wreak havoc on my bag(s, disc and money.)

There's been some hinting around at this question, but...

how is the Envy flying powered down some vs full rip? Like, I'm hearing that it's taking snap well, gliding pretty long with late fade @ around what, 250-300. But, what about the 175-200 ish type shots, where you have to back off a bit? Is the fade kicking in noticably sooner at that range?