[Axiom] Axiom Envy

[BrotherDave]

add some hyzer to the ion..? shouldn't be a issue.

I'm trying but it's tough to throw one flat yet slow enough to fade on short holes or just the tiniest amount of hyzer to fly straight and then fade. I have a bit of wrist roll creeping in but I have to be absolutely perfect to not throw a sweeping hyzer or dead nuts straight. Just super tough to find that gear between them when the Ion beats in.

 

[Menacewarf]

I think the high speed stability (wind resistance, oat resistance) of the envy definately separates it from the ion significantly.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I think the high speed stability (wind resistance, oat resistance) of the envy definately separates it from the ion significantly.

separates it, sure but significantly-- no. Ions hold up to winds great with just a little hyzer. the video of MikeC throwing that ION and evny back to back is not true at all IMO being I have never owned a Ion in my LIFE that turns that much even at 350+ downhill ions will hold a lazer line (I use them for this shot) nothing about the discs flight is significantly different but the feel and designs are. they WILL break in differently. my ion is still a ion really where these will not be a year out from now.

 

[BrotherDave]

Mike C was throwing a pretty beat, old, opaque Proton Ion in that vid wasn't he? I can see those turning, especially with his arm. I can get some turn out of my old Ions with the mismolded small beads not too difficultly.

The stock Ions do hold hyzer lines pretty well, sometimes too well in my case.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

correct. that was my first surprise from throwing a friends proton ion when production runs first come out and I threw pures where they flipped up from hyzer and flew very straight after being used forever then cranked his Ion and thought WTF this is OS as hell?! but was just use to throwing my GRIP pures with a steep hyzer and ions hold a release angle very well-- the difference made for changes in how I drive them but love the added long-term stability.

 

[tbird888]

Mike C was throwing a pretty beat, old, opaque Proton Ion in that vid wasn't he? I can see those turning, especially with his arm. I can get some turn out of my old Ions with the mismolded small beads not too difficultly.

The stock Ions do hold hyzer lines pretty well, sometimes too well in my case.

Pretty sure it's a beat Neutron, not an old Proton.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Pretty sure it's a beat Neutron, not an old Proton.

opaque proton pretty sure are what he throws. tend to have lower OM/shoulders.

 

[AndyJB]

I personally wouldn't even call it a bead, but I think that might be a tomato/tomahtoh situation. My dispute comes from the claim that the disc is wearing in faster than other MVP stuff because of the colors. If it is the disc design I can buy that. But I personally am not seeing a ton of wear regardless. Yeah, I have a good gash out of it, but it's not affecting the flight.

I have three Neutron Envies, all are wearing similiar. I do NOT play on a gravelly, rocky course. It is very wooded, especially the holes I throw the Envy on. Two of the Three have hit trees, one is thankfully tree-free. They all have the same thing going on...still have high speed stability, yet have barely any fade. One is pretty much laser beam straight.

I'm not making this up, nor is this a fluke disc.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I have three Neutron Envies, all are wearing similiar. I do NOT play on a gravelly, rocky course. It is very wooded, especially the holes I throw the Envy on. Two of the Three have hit trees, one is thankfully tree-free. They all have the same thing going on...still have high speed stability, yet have barely any fade. One is pretty much laser beam straight.

I'm not making this up, nor is this a fluke disc.

this sounds true to the design IMO with useage. nothing about it suggests it will retain lss like a zone putter.

 

[BrotherDave]

I have three Neutron Envies, all are wearing similiar. I do NOT play on a gravelly, rocky course. It is very wooded, especially the holes I throw the Envy on. Two of the Three have hit trees, one is thankfully tree-free. They all have the same thing going on...still have high speed stability, yet have barely any fade. One is pretty much laser beam straight.

I'm not making this up, nor is this a fluke disc.

Yeah but you're hitting those cold, Korean hardwoods. :\

 

[onemilemore]

I have three Neutron Envies, all are wearing similiar. I do NOT play on a gravelly, rocky course. It is very wooded, especially the holes I throw the Envy on. Two of the Three have hit trees, one is thankfully tree-free. They all have the same thing going on...still have high speed stability, yet have barely any fade. One is pretty much laser beam straight.

I'm not making this up, nor is this a fluke disc.

Sounds like I need to use mine more, then. I like hearing that it's retaining HSS, at least.

 

[Menacewarf]

separates it, sure but significantly-- no. Ions hold up to winds great with just a little hyzer. the video of MikeC throwing that ION and evny back to back is not true at all IMO being I have never owned a Ion in my LIFE that turns that much even at 350+ downhill ions will hold a lazer line (I use them for this shot) nothing about the discs flight is significantly different but the feel and designs are. they WILL break in differently. my ion is still a ion really where these will not be a year out from now.

Time will tell but my experience is more like the video. I suspect their was some headwind on that video. I know I can't throw an ion 350 but think maybe an envy I could.

 

[Mike C]

separates it, sure but significantly-- no. Ions hold up to winds great with just a little hyzer. the video of MikeC throwing that ION and evny back to back is not true at all IMO being I have never owned a Ion in my LIFE that turns that much even at 350+ downhill ions will hold a lazer line (I use them for this shot) nothing about the discs flight is significantly different but the feel and designs are. they WILL break in differently. my ion is still a ion really where these will not be a year out from now.

If I try to throw my Ion 375' I don't use max power, and I try to pull through clean and with a touch of hyzer.

When I threw the Ion and Envy back to back it was to illustrate that the Envy can handle a max power, slightly oaty power drive like when I throw a Quasar 500'. That style of throw makes an Ion do exactly what it did in that video. Neutral putters can't recover from being torqued over like that, the Envy can. With the Envy I can focus on pulling through hard and flat, and know that if I'm a little sloppy it can handle a less than perfect release even when thrown that far.

I just shot another Envy video, still editing it. Hit the basket on the first and last hole!

 

[Aim For The Chains]

yes big bead discs do needed cleaner throws.

 

[Mike C]

I'm enjoying the Soft Neutrons for putting. I'm glad they're as light as they are, I think it gives them more glide. I'm going to keep testing them as putters, and throwing them off the tee and for approaches to try and break them in some. The 175 Proton is flying nice for me. It's going to be going into my bag as my beefier driving Envy.

 

[NuNinja]

Can't watch the video if it answers my question...
How much beefier is the proton envy vs neutron and soft?

 

[NuNinja]

Protons are up at Community!

 

[AndyJB]

Protona have been up at Infinite Discs for several days now....they still have some high weights left. Im eager to try the Proton. Dont get me wrong about the Ns beating in so quick....I like a disc that can be thrown with power and still be arrow straight. But if the Ps start off a little bit more OS it could be a great combo.

 

[NuNinja]

Protona have been up at Infinite Discs for several days now....

Yeah, but Community's selection is fresh and has the best system. Plus Justin is a great guy. So I thought people would like to know they're available.

 

[AndyJB]

Yeah, but Community's selection is fresh and has the best system. Plus Justin is a great guy. So I thought people would like to know they're available.

As are Kirk and Alan. One might say there is a veritable plethora of nice guys in the disc golf business. And the best system thing is up for debate (not knocking Community Discs, who has helped me emmensly in hosting events...)