BillyJackO's Form Adventure*

[sidewinder22]

Yea, if you were fully swinging you should hit the refrigerator. You need more space or just standstill/one leg/one step. Your front leg is bowing out probably because your not stacked enough in posture and you end up taking a backward step in the finish because you never really made it forward during the swing.

Your transition is rushed, not fully extending into the Door Frame Drill with your weight leading. Your throwing arm never gets the elbow forward with the shoulder closed and also looks hugging, dropping the elbow and rounding the release to the right. Your rear arm is not tight to your body. Your rear shoulder should finish over the front foot.

 

[slowplastic]

Just to further clarify what I mean by not getting on top of the plant, you are rising as you are swinging but your shoulders are well behind your hips. After your back foot comes forward and you follow through, your first stabilizing step is behind you. When you are in balance on the follow through you should kind of pop up on top of the plant and the left foot will swing around your body. Depending on the power/effort of the throw you may step down with the left foot to the side, in front, or sometimes it will swing all the way around on the follow through...but to be clear you will feel your balance on the axis of your plant leg and this left foot step happens well after release (not the beginner thing of people throwing and stepping simultaneously, to be clear for others, but you are not doing this).

Edit: Just saw SW addressed this.

 

[billyjacko]

I suspect this has to do with the indoor surfaces and doing a "controlled" motion rather than having the room and non-slip footing to let it happen.

It most certainly is, lol. I was trying to keep my body in frame with the camera/phone hanging from the microwave door . I'll be updating ASAP when I finally get to a field.

Here's a couple of me trying to Juice it. This is absolutely the last towel shot I'm posting. THESE ARE LAME! but actually helping

EDIT: By the way, you guys are awesome!

 

[billyjacko]

Your transition is rushed, not fully extending into the Door Frame Drill with your weight leading.

I assume you mean transition from back swing to pull through?

Your throwing arm never gets the elbow forward with the shoulder closed

This is kind of a brilliant way to describe the power pocket. Yeah, got tons of work to do! It'll be nice when I can actually throw discs.

 

[sidewinder22]

I assume you mean transition from back swing to pull through?

Yes. This is where something heavy helps like a sledgehammer or the Door Frame, you should naturally lead with your body.

This is kind of a brilliant way to describe the power pocket. Yeah, got tons of work to do! It'll be nice when I can actually throw discs.

It's the crux of the Closed Shoulder Drill and Right Pec Drill.

 

[sidewinder22]

See how Nate keeps his front hip/leg more stacked and closed into the plant and is then able to clear it by extending the front knee. You are planting with your front hip open/not stacked and never extend the front knee to brace and clear from on top your hip. Your front knee remains in the same bend and your front foot pressure rolls over to the outside edge of the foot and spins out as your hip is leaking outside your posture.

Also see how Nate's rear hip is more stacked over the rear ankle = more leveraged forward move. And his rear arm is in tight already = more weight forward.

 

[slowplastic]

Your tempo/shift seems much better. But I also saw that you aren't shifting into a closed front side, instead your front side is opening with the entire throwing motion instead of acting as a brace to throw from. I liken it to the energy stored in the pole of a pole vaulter...but SW22 posted real info/pictures above.

 

[billyjacko]

So, I lied. I'm a liar. I read these two responses and had to try straightening my leg up.

never extend the front knee to brace and clear from on top your hip. Your front knee remains in the same bend

your front side is opening with the entire throwing motion instead of acting as a brace to throw from. I liken it to the energy stored in the pole of a pole vaulter...but SW22 posted real info/pictures above.

I tried doing it and jumping back like Richard Hatton's explanation of bracing, and completely fell over. I took that as a cue I was headed the right direction. I did a few stand stills, then a few with an x-hop. They look, to me, way better, but I had to post and see if I was head the right direction. It seems like I'm not really getting my weight on the inside of my foot, but just landing on my heal and rotating, but idk. It seems like the hips are clearing here.

 

[slowplastic]

The first one in that video is the best I've seen you do, you are balanced and your left foot wants to come forward. The second one your upper body/spine drift leftward and your instinct is to step backwards with the left foot after the throwing motion (you didn't get onto the brace leg). I'll leave it to SW22 to pick out problems though, I can't really say anything additionally with confidence.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, definitely on way better path. Hard to believe it's the same person in the OP. Moar bracing/crushing the can, and gas pedal before you brace (post #14 "the move" part 1 and 2).

 

[billyjacko]

YOU GUYS MADE THIS HAPPEN! lol I'm not going to get too excited until I can replicate with a disc in my hand, and I know there will be an adjustment getting the upper body working with the new lower body form. It's good to know I can still work on form without being in a field. This forced break might end up being the best thing for my game. Seriously though guys, thanks for all the critique.

 

[billyjacko]

A couple more angles just for documentation reasons. It looks like I'm getting my weight under my hips and seeing the knee bowed in look you see from all the top throwers (this is a first for me). There's work to be done getting back into the power pocket, and driving the elbow out, but I'm focusing mostly on the lower body and not even thinking should/elbow/wrist (especially without a disc in my hand.)

 

[slowplastic]

Lower body is looking good to me. It's hard to tell with that many frames/sec but you may need to delay the reachback and let the hips/shift happen before the arm so you get that hips/shoulders separation. I realize you haven't been focusing on upper body yet and I totally understand that situation of getting things ingrained.

 

[billyjacko]

you may need to delay the reachback and let the hips/shift happen before the arm so you get that hips/shoulders separation.

You're referring to the hips leading the throw right? I can see that. It still feels like everything is kind of happening at once. I was messing around with doing a Nate Doss like wide reach back, and could definitely feel the hinges collapse after the brace. It seems like swinging out wide forces you to delay the pull, and accelerate at the pocket rather than into it. I might try to adapt into throwing like that (I already do for up shots) because it seems like you'd need to have a ton of control to not waste all your energy in the early part of the throw.

And for anyone wondering what helped this "click", it was watching Page Pierce throw slow motion in her 'distance advice' video seen below (starts at 39s). Her kind of karate chop with her off hand, and the way her brace is almost 45 degrees off the ground really helped me understand all the subtle thing's y'all have been explaining. My form will obviously never look like hers because I'm not 5' tall, but she exaggerates every part of the basics I've been struggling with.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah, exactly. Get the transfer/hips to have everything to into motion and guide the disc forward/keep the upper arm at a good angle and the forearm back so the hand stays on the outside all the way to the elbow forward position. Then unload.

Watching Paige's form has also helped me a ton, it's just so proper. I wish she had Big Jerm's body for a few throws just to see how far she could blast it if she was his size.

 

[billyjacko]

Got some throws in today!

First throw with a Buzzz

Big anny that bombed

Couple good throws back to back.

 

[slowplastic]

Nice, it translated surprisingly well from kitchen to the field. Get some side views too next time. Distances similar to before but easier?

 

[billyjacko]

Distances similar to before but easier?

Most definitely. I'd say those last two throws were arpund 400', but it was a pretty good tail wind. I found I was staying nice and consistent if I didn't take my first step with my left foot and being perpendicular to the line. For some reason when I take that first step i take a linger final step which causes all my old issues. Leading with shoulders/tipping over, too long of a plant, opening before I plant. You can see it in the first throw with the buzzz.

 

[rhatton1]

This is a phenomenal jump in form in the space of a few days for a player with ingrained habits.

It's quite inspirational TBH!!

Keep up the great work.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

You're looking a ton better - but I think you're "mushing" a bit. Mushing is when you jump up, come down on your back leg and then take that downward force and mush it forward.

Brinster takes the up part, and for the most part guides himself forward with the back foot - into the brace. He doesn't push forward.

I know from my own past experiences with the hop, that mushing can feel very powerful - but it's not a great solution long term for form. You lose the power that is available when you hop and impact into the brace.