pjhayes7
Double Eagle Member
What do logic and facts have to do with a discussion on a forum? They get in the way of interesting conversations.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
[Gateway] Gateway Wizard
- Thread starter Fosterjon35
- Start date
What do logic and facts have to do with a discussion on a forum? They get in the way of interesting conversations.
SD86
Banned
Not dumb at all. The (Jawbreaker) APX is an excellent mold.
It's a finesse disc, though. Sometimes you get a great shot, sometimes it flips and you get a not-so-great shot. It's user dependent, you can't screw up and have the disc bail you out. If I was a really consistent golfer it would be great, but I'm not that good.
Wizards used to bail me out, but my arm is torn up and the drop you get from a Wizard/Warlock was making them fly like a brick. The APX is easier to throw when you can't throw, you know? It seems to respond to low-power better than a Wizard. If I ever get any power back in my approach game, Imma gonna have some APX's to trade. :|
Streets
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 10,597
Grippenripp
* Ace Member *
Suppose I forgot about that......
Grippenripp
* Ace Member *
MVP is a fine company, but to act like you discovered some secret by adding weight to the edges (normal rim to flight plate ratio) is kind of a funny gimmick, even funnier people fell for it. IDK the only MVP/Axiom disc I own is a 150g. Tesla from the PDGA. And I'm not throwing that.
art_vandelay
Eagle Member
I currently throw three MVP molds: Inertia, Switch, Ion. They are great, dependable, durable discs, and they fly really nice for me. I don't care if it's gyro making them work. MVP can call it anything they want....I don't care. Great products coming out of that company while their marketing approach is just meh.
Vic Rattlehead
Newbie
The comment about the Wizard flying like a brick is interesting. I have thrown Wizards for 15 years and I too think that it is not a great glider. However, its glide rating (on infinitediscs and dgputtheads) is 5, which is quite high for a putter. Its glide number is two higher than a Pure, which is the opposite of my experience. Isn't it odd for there to be such a big discrepancy?
Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
SD86
Banned
The flight numbers of all discs are general guidelines, and should not be taken too much as Gospel. Additionally, there's no standard between companies nor vendors as to these numbers. So the discrepancy isn't all that odd, and it's one reason we discuss discs here...
I use the term "glide" because we all do but sometimes I don't really think I understand what it is. Actually most of the time I don't think I know what it is.
Like with the APX, that to me is glide. You throw it and it has this floaty somethingorrather thing it does where it goes a lot farther than other putters thrown the same way would. You can finesse it and get it to do some crazy stuff.
The Wizard goes a long freaking way, but it goes as far as you put power into it. You don't mess around and touch spin a Wizard and expect it to sail off with some crazy glide. If you don't throw it, it ain't going anywhere. If you do throw it, it goes far. That's not really what I would think glide is, but I don't really know what glide is. Other than a number on a stamp. :| The way I look at glide makes it a stable-to-understable quality, an overstable disc to me really doesn't have glide. They go far when you throw them hard.
However, there is something about a Wizard that makes it generally longer for me than a KC Pro Aviar. For me, it has more distance potential, so there is something about it that makes it go farther. So maybe it's glide, since I don't really know what glide is. Or not. I don't really know.
That makes the Wizard one of those discs where one guy will say it has glide and I'll agree with him because they are damn long and somebody else will say it doesn't have glide and I'll agree with them because you have to power the thing to get it to go. Figuring out who is actually right would be easier for me if I knew what glide was. :|
Like with the APX, that to me is glide. You throw it and it has this floaty somethingorrather thing it does where it goes a lot farther than other putters thrown the same way would. You can finesse it and get it to do some crazy stuff.
The Wizard goes a long freaking way, but it goes as far as you put power into it. You don't mess around and touch spin a Wizard and expect it to sail off with some crazy glide. If you don't throw it, it ain't going anywhere. If you do throw it, it goes far. That's not really what I would think glide is, but I don't really know what glide is. Other than a number on a stamp. :| The way I look at glide makes it a stable-to-understable quality, an overstable disc to me really doesn't have glide. They go far when you throw them hard.
However, there is something about a Wizard that makes it generally longer for me than a KC Pro Aviar. For me, it has more distance potential, so there is something about it that makes it go farther. So maybe it's glide, since I don't really know what glide is. Or not. I don't really know.
That makes the Wizard one of those discs where one guy will say it has glide and I'll agree with him because they are damn long and somebody else will say it doesn't have glide and I'll agree with them because you have to power the thing to get it to go. Figuring out who is actually right would be easier for me if I knew what glide was. :|
Vic Rattlehead
Newbie
I agree with this. To me the epitome of glide is the Comet. Easy distance with minimal effort. Opto Pure is the putter version of the Comet for me. Wizard definitely goes very far but it doesn't fit my mental image of "glide".
Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
SD86
Banned
My 'definition' of glide is how well the disc continues in the air after the power you administer to the disc is 'used up', offset by the air resistance. Alternatively, it could be described as the lift the disc gets from its wing design beyond the power with which its thrown. A disc can go a long way without having a lot of glide, and it can go a long way because of the glide...
Yeah, but how do you know when the power is "used up"? For me I'm just guessing at when that is, and with an overstable disc like the Wizard I guess that it's "used up" when it starts to fade. So the way I perceive it, they don't glide. They go as far as you power them, then fade. That's not how the numbers go from the manufacturers, so I'm missing something.
SD86
Banned
Well, we know how flight numbers can be... sometimes nowhere near how the disc actually flies. I'm not sure how to tell when the throwing power is done either. I agree with you that when an OS disc begins to fade, that's the point. Sometimes when I throw a disc high, it begins to stall. Some discs seek the ground immediately, while others seem to float along a bit further. That stall point might be the line, also, and the high glide discs float on.
As to the Wizard, when I (re-)tried it as my putter, I was hitting the outside of the basket, especially from circle's edge. I had become used to the Marshal and Warden staying up in the air a bit longer and therefore hitting the chains. That's the 'glide' difference between those putters. The Wizard is no brick, never meant to suggest it was, but the DD discs have relatively more glide.
Last edited:
There is a Gateway adjustment from an Aviar to a Wizard or Warlock because of the drop factor. It's a thing. If you putt a Wizard exactly the same as an Aviar, you are going to hit the cage. You can aim higher, but windy days will kill you if you do that. I basically putt them harder. It's never really bothered me, it's just an adjustment you make. I could see it really bothering people with a certain putting stroke dialed in, though.
dysmike
Double Eagle Member
The K3 Reko reminded me of a really glidey Wizard. The plastic was great (although softer than I like in a putter), too bad I really didn't like the extra glide. Felt like a Voodoo too.
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
First time I threw a Soft Wizard I couldnt get it to go anywhere. Thought it was a dud. But i was trying to throw it like i was used to throwing other putters. Power up and really drove the disc and then it clicked for me. I would rather slam on a Wizard to get it going and still not worry about turning it over, than trying to finesse a floaty putter even if the latter could be done with much less force. The repeatability is in the former, for me. Also, I feel like the Wizard has surprisingly little lateral movement during fade, for a putter that stable. I can see it slowing down and tilting to the side, but it doesnt get too far off the line nevertheless.
Grippenripp
* Ace Member *
^^This, for sure.^^
art_vandelay
Eagle Member
I guess people think glide is always a good thing. On any kind of throw where I'm trying to range a shot for distance, glide is bad because it's hard to account for. Glidey discs sometimes glide, sometimes don't depending on so many factors. For these type of rangy shots, I want a disc that does where I throw it with no mind of its own.
Distance drivers are another story. I want the glide because I'm looking for that extra distance to help get me downrange.
So in my opinion glide is mostly bad when approaching but good when driving for distance. Of course it's not that simple but it's the way I think about it.
Distance drivers are another story. I want the glide because I'm looking for that extra distance to help get me downrange.
So in my opinion glide is mostly bad when approaching but good when driving for distance. Of course it's not that simple but it's the way I think about it.
SD86
Banned
True about being dialed in. And if I were going to putt with the Wizard, I'd practice with until it became 'the norm', and it would be fine. As it is, I went with the Marshal as my putter, and I've been happy with it. The Reko was good too. I guess the more glidey putters just work for me...
