Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Just hope the Wizard is not G9i as that is no longer PDGA but could be used as a practice Wizard if you like and have the low dome discs in some other stiffer plastic.
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[Gateway] Gateway Wizard
- Thread starter Fosterjon35
- Start date
Just hope the Wizard is not G9i as that is no longer PDGA but could be used as a practice Wizard if you like and have the low dome discs in some other stiffer plastic.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Wrong! Stop spreading misinformation. G9i Wizards are perfectly legal to be thrown in sanctioned competition. The PDGA asked Gateway to stop making them. They never banned them. This has to be the fourth or fifth time you've had to be corrected on this. Dave Mac himself provided this information. Just stop.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
No they have ban them, well the person running the even might that is why I said that. I almost got ban because I used the G9i in a PDGA event in 2008. Though it seems like a gray area especially since some were without a PDGA approved logo on them in the early 2000's.
Well Good luck if the only putter somebody has is a G9i and the tournament director is one who bans the disc for competition due to it not being allowed to be made anymore by the PDGA.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
The drama involving them happened long after 2008. It was during the reissues, not the originals. It's what caused the latest tooling to be created. You need to stop. Seriously.
Streets
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 10,597
Just start reporting him...maybe he'll get the message.
dysmike
Double Eagle Member
Unlikely.
Streets
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2012
- Messages
- 10,597
You never know...
lines
Double Eagle Member
I really hope it's a G9i.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Adding this to the conversation to hopefully finally stop the misinformation. Thanks to Hampstead for doing the research. This mirrors the conversation I had with Dave when the announcement was made as I was trying to get him to sell me more before they disappeared.
lines
Double Eagle Member
::grabs a handful of popcorn, waiting for response::
pjhayes7
Double Eagle Member
I mean really. What does some dude named Dave know about discs generally and the Wizard specifically? That was probably just a troll spreading fake news.
lines
Double Eagle Member
It's not his response I'm waiting for.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
I know, right!?! It's not like he owns Gateway and created the Wizard. It's not like the nickname of the Wizard wasn't the Daviar at one point or anything.
Coldpunk
Par Member
I actually had someone call me out for using a g9i in a tournament after he grabbed it from the basket after one of my putts to hand it back to me. Luckily being in Missouri the TD was very familiar with Gateway and the g9i controversy. TD asked the guy who called me out for using an illegal disc if the putter said PDGA approved on the back(which of course it did) and said "there's your answer, legal disc".
SD86
Banned
So this is basically like a cop pulling someone over for speeding but letting them go with just a warning. They were in violation of the rules, but didn't get a citation, only a warning, and they stayed within the speed limit after that.
Likewise, the PDGA told Gateway the G9i and Mediums were illegal, but did not outright ban all G9i discs (i.e. the citation); and Gateway voluntarily withdrew the offenders from their sales market.
Does this pretty much cover it?
Likewise, the PDGA told Gateway the G9i and Mediums were illegal, but did not outright ban all G9i discs (i.e. the citation); and Gateway voluntarily withdrew the offenders from their sales market.
Does this pretty much cover it?
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dysmike
Double Eagle Member
No, they told them they were too stiff (a materials issue, not a design issue). The mold is perfectly legal.
SD86
Banned
The material was the whole frickin' point of the problem to begin with. The design was never the issue, the material was. So what was your point in even bringing up the design of the disc?
And if the PDGA said the material was too stiff, they were saying that discs of that material would be illegal in sanctioned play. And that's what they told Gateway, and Gateway took the Mediums and the bad G9i out.
It's semantics.
The flex test has always been a bad standard because there is no enforcement. Manufacturers send in some protos and so long as those pass the test, the discs are legal. The PDGA doesn't do compliance checks i.e. randomly taking stock discs are retesting them. It's not possible to check discs in players bags for compliance.
As a player, I throw pre-2013 medium Wizards. I have neither the equipment or the know-how to flex test my golf discs and I'm not going to stop throwing them because they "might" be illegal per the flex test. I can't prove that they are legal per the flex test, but I can't prove that any disc in my bag can pass the flex test. So far as I'm aware of, my entire bag of golf discs might be illegal by the flex test standard. All I can do is trust the manufacturers that they are not selling discs that are not compliant with the flex test. Anybody with those stiff Firebirds or a Cam Todd Challenger knows that's not always the case.
Gateway got "caught" for something that nobody does i.e. doing in house flex test compliance for individual runs of discs. They got reported by somebody and voluntarily removed the plastic blends in question. Instead of just letting them go OOP and not saying anything, they admitted that it was a flex test issue and people flew off the handle and said the discs were somehow retroactively illegal even though there is no way to enforce that.
Back to me and my pre-2013 medium Wizards. I've had people claim that if I cared about rules I would voluntarily stop using them because "you know they are illegal." I know no such thing. I know that Gateway plastics are wildly inconsistent and at least one medium blend they sold was determined to be too stiff. I also have Wizards marked as "soft" that are stiffer than some of my mediums. I can tell you with total confidence that the fact that around 2013 sometime a run of medium Wizards was found to be too stiff proves nothing about the Wizards I have.
Which is back to the the start. Can my medium Wizards pass a flex test? No idea. Can my big bead Omega AP's pass a flex test? Also no idea. Could that worn-out old Pro Starfire that shattered on me pass the flex test at any point in the last two years that I threw it? Well if it was so brittle that it shattered probably not, but I'm sure it could have when I bought it. I can't test for that, though. Unenforceable rule.
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
True true.
Problem is, the way the rule is worded, all suspect discs are illegal until proven otherwise.
So not only is it hard to enforce, its a guilty until proven innocent type of deal. Although, if I was a TD and someone was suspecting their fellow players discs to mess with them, without any good reason, I would not hesitate to DQ their ass.
Problem is, the way the rule is worded, all suspect discs are illegal until proven otherwise.
So not only is it hard to enforce, its a guilty until proven innocent type of deal. Although, if I was a TD and someone was suspecting their fellow players discs to mess with them, without any good reason, I would not hesitate to DQ their ass.
