[Innova] Innova Stud: New PnA

[jonkimbertx]

Necro bump. Just sharing something I just learned.

I just watched the AskDave #2 video (https://youtu.be/dd8AmxP-BSs), and Dave Dunipace had an interesting comment about the V-Tech, that it reduces the LSS fade. I've been wondering why my Star Stud was often not fading like I wanted it to, especially on higher power throws, and now I know. So now I'm going to seek an approach disc with a more certain fade to compliment the Star Stud.

It's funny because I watched that video too while I already had an XT stud in the mail, also took note of that comment. So far I would agree, the HSS is for real but the LSS is very mild and manageable. That's actually what I was hoping for because I'm switching from an Axiom Soft Envy, which I found always faded out harsher than I wanted. If that's what you are looking for you might give it a shot, though it sounds like you're digging the Harp now.

 

[SD86]

It's funny because I watched that video too while I already had an XT stud in the mail, also took note of that comment. So far I would agree, the HSS is for real but the LSS is very mild and manageable. That's actually what I was hoping for because I'm switching from an Axiom Soft Envy, which I found always faded out harsher than I wanted. If that's what you are looking for you might give it a shot, though it sounds like you're digging the Harp now.

Thanks for the comments. i do have an Envy, and it's a good disc. But as I've said in the past, I'm not comfortable powering down with MVP/Axiom discs. So I only use it on occasion, when I take an 'All-MVP' bag out to the course.

My TP Harp came in the mail yesterday and I took it out to the course today, and two things happened: 1) the Harp peformed extremely well... straight with a reliable fade, but not a hard dump fade like the Gator; and 2) I began throwing the Stud more straight at the basket instead of anticipating that fade, and I parked the Stud several times.

Overall, now that I know how to properly throw the Star Stud, both it and the Harp will remain in my bag, and I'm already shaving some strokes from my scores.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

That's actually what I was hoping for because I'm switching from an Axiom Soft Envy, which I found always faded out harsher than I wanted. If that's what you are looking for you might give it a shot, though it sounds like you're digging the Harp now.[/QUOTE]


Isn't vtech what MVP really invented with their gyro technology or something as they call it? I almost dam sure the envies do that, one reason they are so loved.

 

[jonkimbertx]

Isn't vtech what MVP really invented with their gyro technology or something as they call it? I almost dam sure the envies do that, one reason they are so loved.

Yeah they advertise the gryo effect as a "forward fade", adding distance at the end of the flight. What I hear most people praise the Envy for is the feel and high speed stability.

 

[SD86]

Isn't vtech what MVP really invented with their gyro technology or something as they call it? I almost dam sure the envies do that, one reason they are so loved.

I don't think V-tech and Gyro are the same thing. VTech is a convex rim and big bead, while Gyro is overmold. Do they accomplish the same purposes in different ways? Somewhat...

 

[hugheshilton]

I don't think V-tech and Gyro are the same thing. VTech is a convex rim and big bead, while Gyro is overmold. Do they accomplish the same purposes in different ways? Somewhat...

I agree. I think that is what Dave D was trying to say in the video. Basically, if you think about the same disc (say a Roc) and you take the underside of the wing and make it convex instead of concave by adding extra plastic there, then you're adding weight around the edge of the disc which should increase its gyroscopic properties (more angular momentum, blah, blah), which is the same thing MVP does by using a more dense type of plastic around the edge of the disc. I assume that means that since you added volume to the Roc mold you also have to change your plastic blend (increase the lighter additive) so that it is slightly less dense in order to get the same overall weights.

Now, Dave also said that doing this doesn't change the disc's aerodynamic properties, which is something I find a little hard to believe since you're changing the shape of the wing. However, I'm no expert on aerodynamic wings so I'll leave the evaluation of that claim to others.

Of course an Envy and a Stud are 2 different molds with different shapes so even if they had the same level of gyroscopic effect, it wouldn't mean they would fly the same. It might mean that they are both be equally resistant to OAT though I suppose.

 

[SD86]

I agree. I think that is what Dave D was trying to say in the video. Basically, if you think about the same disc (say a Roc) and you take the underside of the wing and make it convex instead of concave by adding extra plastic there, then you're adding weight around the edge of the disc which should increase its gyroscopic properties (more angular momentum, blah, blah), which is the same thing MVP does by using a more dense type of plastic around the edge of the disc. I assume that means that since you added volume to the Roc mold you also have to change your plastic blend (increase the lighter additive) so that it is slightly less dense in order to get the same overall weights.

Now, Dave also said that doing this doesn't change the disc's aerodynamic properties, which is something I find a little hard to believe since you're changing the shape of the wing. However, I'm no expert on aerodynamic wings so I'll leave the evaluation of that claim to others.

Of course an Envy and a Stud are 2 different molds with different shapes so even if they had the same level of gyroscopic effect, it wouldn't mean they would fly the same. It might mean that they are both be equally resistant to OAT though I suppose.

I agree with you. The flight patters are definitely changed in V-Tech discs... the Stud doesn't fade as much as one would expect, for example. (as discussed earlier).

I haven't done much with physics since I was in the Field Artillery in the Army, but it appears to me that V-tech attempts to trap a pocket of air under that wing, thus increasing the lift, ergo getting more glide. Gyro (overmold) attempts to use the weight on the outer rim to keep the momentum (perhaps moment of inertia is more correct) going, keeping the wing to the air longer and thus keeping the disc going.

I do know that gyro discs, including the Proxy and Envy, seem to have less glide than other discs. That can be bad or good, depending on what you want. I also know the above explanation accounts for my problems with powering down MVP/Axiom discs.

 

[jonkimbertx]

I also know the above explanation accounts for my problems with powering down MVP/Axiom discs.

What problem is that?

 

[SD86]

What problem is that?

They tend to fade out more quickly, and I had trouble consistently getting them to go the right distances. That was some time ago, though; maybe I should go play an "all-MVP/Axiom" bag next week and see how things go...

 

[discguy42]

They tend to fade out more quickly, and I had trouble consistently getting them to go the right distances. That was some time ago, though; maybe I should go play an "all-MVP/Axiom" bag next week and see how things go...

Don't waste your time or money on that MVP/Axiom bag mess .

The only disc of theirs I liked or used was the Atom and it was replaced with Proto Colts in my bag for that slot. I tried the Stud but the Proto Colt is just as stable as the Stud turned out.

MVP does not power down for the average thrower, IMO.

 

[SD86]

Don't waste your time or money on that MVP/Axiom bag mess .

The only disc of theirs I liked or used was the Atom and it was replaced with Proto Colts in my bag for that slot. I tried the Stud but the Proto Colt is just as stable as the Stud turned out.

MVP does not power down for the average thrower, IMO.

Not buying more, but I can take the the MVP/Axiom discs I already have out for a fling. Some of them (Axis, Amp) I still really like on full power throws.

I agree with you about the proto-Colt and the (Star) Stud, which I use.

Agree about the powering down....

 

[bsammons]

What do y'all mean by power down? I'd say I'm just a slightly above average thrower (longest measured throw is 435 but I can hit 415 fairly consistently) and I have no issue with short holes (200 and in). After 200 I'd hardly call anything I'd throw in such a case powered down except for my resistor, which powers down remarkably well (straight to buttload of fade)

 

[Snap-it]

...they can't throw MVP powered up either

 

[ranger]

The average disc golfer should have no problems with mvp discs.

 

[jonkimbertx]

They tend to fade out more quickly, and I had trouble consistently getting them to go the right distances. That was some time ago, though; maybe I should go play an "all-MVP/Axiom" bag next week and see how things go...

That's what I thought you meant and it's spot on with my experience. I bought a soft Envy based on the positive talk it gets for drives and approaches, but I ended up really unhappy with it. On anything less than a 200 foot drive I had to factor in a really heavy fade, almost as hard as my Zone. It got to the point where I was anhyzering it just to make it go straight for a 100 feet, which was totally aggravating. Doesn't happen too often where I completely disagree with the popular opinion of a disc, but it sure happened with the Envy.

Even the Proxy fades out harder than I feel like is reasonable for an US putter :\

 

[Snap-it]

That's what I thought you meant and it's spot on with my experience. I bought a soft Envy based on the positive talk it gets for drives and approaches, but I ended up really unhappy with it. On anything less than a 200 foot drive I had to factor in a really heavy fade, almost as hard as my Zone. It got to the point where I was anhyzering it just to make it go straight for a 100 feet, which was totally aggravating. Doesn't happen too often where I completely disagree with the popular opinion of a disc, but it sure happened with the Envy.

Even the Proxy fades out harder than I feel like is reasonable for an US putter :\

Okay, first that shouldn't be happening with the Envy. And second, the Proxy isn't a US putter, but is perfectly stable and completely fadeless. Don't let "Gyro" psyche you out.

Just go with the Stud's fade instead, lol.

 

[SD86]

That's what I thought you meant and it's spot on with my experience. I bought a soft Envy based on the positive talk it gets for drives and approaches, but I ended up really unhappy with it. On anything less than a 200 foot drive I had to factor in a really heavy fade, almost as hard as my Zone. It got to the point where I was anhyzering it just to make it go straight for a 100 feet, which was totally aggravating. Doesn't happen too often where I completely disagree with the popular opinion of a disc, but it sure happened with the Envy.

Even the Proxy fades out harder than I feel like is reasonable for an US putter :\

I agree with you on all this. The Proxy, which is absolutely an understable putter if thrown correctly, isn't too bad when thrown at less than full power. But it's inconsistent and touchy, and requires more practice time than it's worth. So I go with the Star Stud, which does very well and is much more consistent for me than the Envy, including when powered down.

 

[ranger]

I agree with you on all this. The Proxy, which is absolutely an understable putter if thrown correctly, isn't too bad when thrown at less than full power. But it's inconsistent and touchy, and requires more practice time than it's worth. So I go with the Star Stud, which does very well and is much more consistent for me than the Envy, including when powered down.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

Proxy does not have an understable flight.

It's not inconsistent.

It's not touchy.

It does not require more practice.

It's one of the easier mvp discs to throw.

 

[Snap-it]

lol, it's hopeless

...obviously has never thrown a Proxy. Or maybe that "slow muscle" affliction explains it.

 

[ranger]

The Proxy is a lot like the Innova Colt. Shallow rim and dead-nuts straight on approach shots straight at the basket. It can be put on a slight anny line and it'll hold that line with a gentle landing. On a hyzer line the Proxy may outshine the Colt, as the Proxy holds its hyzer line to the ground, with a little bit of skip to account for. Once again, flat and straight will be flat and straight.

If more power is put on the Proxy, it does become a bit understable and can turn over if cranked too hard. Ditto that if thrown into a strong headwind

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