Maxing out @ 300ft...

[racer93]

especially obtaining visual contact as your force is far from being focused.

So, is this just keeping your eyes on the point you want to throw at for as long as possible, only letting your eyes off target because of the reachback (can't help it)? Is that what you're referring to?

Also, after looking at it frame by frame, I noticed at or just past the right pec, the disc was almost 10" out from my chest. Need to work on that. That could be some right there.

 

[masterbeato]

i feel bad every time someone thinks those drills are mine, i just made the video.

it may be easier to learn the timing if you start from a shorter reach back.

 

[Blake_T1]

So, is this just keeping your eyes on the point you want to throw at for as long as possible, only letting your eyes off target because of the reachback (can't help it)? Is that what you're referring to?

no.

you can let your eyes off the target during the reach back but once you start your forward motion you should be making visual contact early so that you can focus your power at the target.

a martial artist making a strike vs. a martial artist striking in attempt to break a brick.
the latter will be able to deliver more force to break said brick.

 

[racer93]

i feel bad every time someone thinks those drills are mine, i just made the video.

it may be easier to learn the timing if you start from a shorter reach back.

You might put something on the video acknowledging Blake's work. That might help clear up things.

I tried the right pec drill and felt a little, but not much. How would a shorter reach back help improve timing problems?

I think that one of the things someone else pointed out was that my elbow wasn't stopping in the follow through. I guess that would limit the power generation. That make sense?

 

[racer93]

So, is this just keeping your eyes on the point you want to throw at for as long as possible, only letting your eyes off target because of the reachback (can't help it)? Is that what you're referring to?

no.

you can let your eyes off the target during the reach back but once you start your forward motion you should be making visual contact early so that you can focus your power at the target.

a martial artist making a strike vs. a martial artist striking in attempt to break a brick.
the latter will be able to deliver more force to break said brick.

This makes sense. I'll incorporate this into my throws. Thanks! As you can tell, I can use any and all help I can get!

Man, I wish I could play a round with you guys. That would help soooooooo much.

 

[black udder]

a shorter reach back would help because you wouldn't have to time a long reach back into the right pec. sort of keep the disc around the right pec area and just turn your shoulders. Then it's just a matter of pulling at the right time. The disc is already where it needs to be (or close to it).

do you gain any distance with an x-step? I would think if you're throwing 350' from a stand still, you could get something out around 400' area with an x-step. With wind/elevation, you could be as far as 450'-500'... Most of the long holes I see have some elevation. just sayin' I don't think you're as far off as you think.

 

[masterbeato]

i feel bad every time someone thinks those drills are mine, i just made the video.

it may be easier to learn the timing if you start from a shorter reach back.

I tried the right pec drill and felt a little, but not much. How would a shorter reach back help improve timing problems?

less movement - you can accelerate a lot earlier rather than waiting longer for the arm to come into the power zone. seems to help since when people are learning this they tend to accelerate too early and decelerate through the power zone. this way you can accelerate earlier and find more success in the timing since you will already be close to the power zone.

 

[terazen]

something i will reiterate, focus more upon how to unleash the disc and less about body positions. timing dominates body positions unless said positions are so f'd up that they block timing.

something to keep in mind:
when people's timing goes wacky i ask them what their goal is. most say arm speed, which if you are trying to max out arm speed at some point, your timing will be wacky. the goal of the throw is to launch the disc. how do you get to the spots to launch the disc? TRY to launch the disc. don't try to just get the disc "moving fast" in your hand.

When I read this about the goal to launch a disc it made me think of Nolan Ryan's book when he said that if someone wants to throw fastballs faster then they should practice a lot throwing fastballs. Both of yall are right on. I'm one of those people who was trying to get my arm moving fast. I threw about 30-40 throws today thinking about getting the disc to launch out of my hand and dang if I didn't set a new pr by 25'! I think Brad said this in his snap video but for whatever reason it didn't click.

 

[JR]

Try to get your elbow closer to the target before straightening the forearm. Also you'll pivot faster and less obstructed and tense if you move your right leg right by about 8-9" for flat releases. You are a bit annied. Although that in itself generates a little more power from the upper body rotation so the difference ain't gonna be great likely. But it's safer for the body.

in your videos you weren't stopping your chest at all, it was during a constant speed rotation from 180 to 0. the whip effect is VERY minor compared to snap. if you can conserve the momentum of your whip and still snap it, that is good, however, most people can't snap it if they try to whip it.

what you don't seem to understand is that the POWER OF THE THROW HAPPENS AS THE DISC PASSES YOUR BODY AND BEYOND. the body actually does very little work compared to work that snap does.

one, the right pec and elbow drills are mine and i taught them to dan

the purpose of that drill is to teach people how to "hit it" and then integrate more and more motion while they are still hitting it. e.g. do the double hit using 0 torso rotation. do the double hit using 45 degrees torso rotation. do the double hit using 90 degrees torso rotation. do the double hit using 90 degrees torso rotation + a reach back, and so on.

the biggest thing you can learn from this is if you spin your torso from 180 to 0 you won't deliver a forceful hit with your elbow nor your hand.

I do understand (in my mind) that the energy is imparted in the last part of the throw. I've got that from reading a lot of your postings. I'm trying to focus on that part of the throw (only accel my arm then, not before) but I'm just not doing something. I feel I'm making some progress and I can see exactly what others are doing to get big D (500'+), but I just can't get my body to do the same. (This is unusual, as I've found that I could generally control my body well.)

Sorry about thinking it was Dan's. Ooops.

So, I think you are absolutely right about my hips. It's odd that I'm keeping the disc really close to my chest, trying not to accel with my arm until the right pec, but I still don't seem to have a "hip pause" before the hit. As I said, I'm going to post a video or two tonight that shows what I'm doing during a standstill throw.

Today, I was getting about 350' with my surge ss. Not the best, I know. This is flat, straight throw with no turn.

Thanks for your help and patience. I know I must be frustrating the living you know what out of you right now. I'm just glad you're here to help.

EDIT: Ok, so I filmed my drives and they look almost identical to the previous drives I posted. WTF? I don't get it. I feel really down and that I'll just be stuck at this driving distance. Argh.

Two vids I just took:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D32F5kXl7Dg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZu1uTpRIY

Enjoy for those sick enough...

 

[jubuttib]

For some reason it's all starting to remind me of proper cornering techniques on a race car. You start out on the outside of the corner, slowly go into the inside of the corner, as tight as you can get and only from there you blast out again as hard as you can while aiming for the outside of the corner exit and the following straight. It's not about getting through the corner in the fastest possible time, it's about setting yourself up to go as fast as possible on the following straight, getting to the next corner as fast as you can. If you try to rush the corner entry you're just going to mess up your lines, have to slow down too much for the apex and then you're pretty much stuck, your exit speed (and anything you could have gained from it) is gone. Only when you can see the exit and you know the car can handle it do you accelerate out of the corner.

Like Jackie Stewart says, the exit of a corner is far more important than the entry of a corner. You never step on the pedal before you know you never have to lift your foot off from it.

Funny how physics works like that, no matter what your sport is...

 

[Lithicon]

Heh, it's hard to correlate that for most people in terms of throwing a disc especially the way you explained it there as there are lots of variables into cornering that I personally can't relate. Just that conservation of momentum, which does essentially correlate both in this sense. I'm going to assume that's what you meant, and not start a cornering debate in this thread. :lol:

 

[racer93]

For some reason it's all starting to remind me of proper cornering techniques on a race car.

Now this is funny, because I used to race cars...Jackies Stewart's old philosophy that still works is, "Slow in, fast out."

 

[racer93]

Thank you all for your help. There are certainly a number of things I'm going to work on, including shortening my reach, getting my elbow up and making sure to bend it more (and hence keeping the disc closer in to my chest), and continuing to focus on the hit.

I'm pretty sure that with the addition of a full run up could add 25-50', but not much more. That would be a total of 380-420'. I really think that if I get everything working, I could get 450-475'. If I could throw that with a good amount of accuracy, I'd be very, very happy (as I'm sure most would). That's my goal.

I know my questions seem unending, but it's my drive to be successful. Thanks for your patience!

Daniel

 

[garublador1]

you can let your eyes off the target during the reach back but once you start your forward motion you should be making visual contact early so that you can focus your power at the target.

This potentially answers all the questions I've been formulating in the past couple weeks since I've started playing again. I feel like I can either hit it well, or throw on-line. I'm definitely not making visual contact when you suggest.

 

[Blake_T1]

Now this is funny, because I used to race cars...Jackies Stewart's old philosophy that still works is, "Slow in, fast out."

you should then be able to see why i consider visual contact so important:

as tight as you can get and only from there you blast out again as hard as you can while aiming for the outside of the corner exit and the following straight. It's not about getting through the corner in the fastest possible time, it's about setting yourself up to go as fast as possible on the following straight, getting to the next corner as fast as you can.

without having a line in mind or a target area to reach it's harder to go full bore at the right time.

while spatial awareness can go far, there's a difference in learning to hit it blind than trying to hit it blind after you know how to hit it.

 

[racer93]

Now this is funny, because I used to race cars...Jackies Stewart's old philosophy that still works is, "Slow in, fast out."

you should then be able to see why i consider visual contact so important:

as tight as you can get and only from there you blast out again as hard as you can while aiming for the outside of the corner exit and the following straight. It's not about getting through the corner in the fastest possible time, it's about setting yourself up to go as fast as possible on the following straight, getting to the next corner as fast as you can.

without having a line in mind or a target area to reach it's harder to go full bore at the right time.

while spatial awareness can go far, there's a difference in learning to hit it blind than trying to hit it blind after you know how to hit it.

Strangely enough, when I raced, I memorized the course. (When I was younger, I had a photographic memory.) Then I would remember when things needed to be done and what the car would be doing at a certain point. Thus, I would NOT look ahead like most drivers would, because i would know what was going to come before it did. It was completely antithetical to what was taught (and what I taught), but it's what worked for me. That'w where my not looking came from.

I am willing and will change, as I do see the benefits in it. Again, thanks!

 

[Blake_T1]

Strangely enough, when I raced, I memorized the course. (When I was younger, I had a photographic memory.) Then I would remember when things needed to be done and what the car would be doing at a certain point. Thus, I would NOT look ahead like most drivers would, because i would know what was going to come before it did. It was completely antithetical to what was taught (and what I taught), but it's what worked for me. That'w where my not looking came from

You actually proved my point here hehe. I'm guessing when you were in the process of memorizing the course that you did look ahead. This is the stage where you are at now.

It is possible to hit it without visual contact, but you aren't there yet. You haven't memorized it yet.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

That's part of my problem. I have a photographic memory, but not quite what is considered to be eidetic memory.

I tend to walk a course once before a tournament and can memorize pretty much the whole layout. Its been a long and drawn out process to relearn the visual aiming versus the set it and forget it mindset that i have been using.

sure, i can get pretty darn accurate with the set it and forget it aiming style (great for long distances when power is needed), but when i actually use visual aiming (for accuracy shots) then i can get pretty pin point accurate. I just hate not having that full reach back when visually aiming as it gets my timing off.

but hey, if it aint fixed, might as well break it right?

 

[racer93]

Strangely enough, when I raced, I memorized the course. (When I was younger, I had a photographic memory.) Then I would remember when things needed to be done and what the car would be doing at a certain point. Thus, I would NOT look ahead like most drivers would, because i would know what was going to come before it did. It was completely antithetical to what was taught (and what I taught), but it's what worked for me. That'w where my not looking came from

You actually proved my point here hehe. I'm guessing when you were in the process of memorizing the course that you did look ahead. This is the stage where you are at now.

It is possible to hit it without visual contact, but you aren't there yet. You haven't memorized it yet.

Oh, yes I know I did. That's what I was saying--I wasn't looing ahead DURING the race, but I did it before hand. That's what I'm doing now, but as you said--I'm not good enough to do it yet. (BTW, I was one of the top drivers in the nation, even doing what I was...freaked people out. :lol: )

 

[racer93]

So what does it say if, while doing the right pec drill you grip lock drives and throw them pretty far to the right? Is my timing THAT off, even here?

I was able to throw 340' hyzer bombs with TBs after practicing the short reach back. I think things are slowly coming together.

One other thing--I've been trying to get the nose down for a while. One thing that happened was that when I would throw, the disc would go up and then kind of "bounce" when it got to a certain height and came down a little. Is that true "nose down" throwing? Is there something else I should be looking for in recognising true nose down flight?