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[Gateway] Medium Wizards No Longer PDGA Legal?

At least the PDGA is just enforcing an existing rule that manufacturers have abused. They really need to have a staff that can test ALL new discs for compliance, rather than just spot-checking them as they have them sent by the manufacturers. The PGA issued a new rule to shut down long putter use :(

All new molds are tested, and the rule states that manufacturers must send in the stiffest plastic they plan on producing that disc in. I still think it's a little silly to expect a tiny organization to test millions of discs every year. I haven't heard a good suggestion outside of people doing what is suggested by the PDGA: send in discs that they think are outside the tech specs so the PDGA can take action like they did on these wizards.
 
I lost track of this thread over the weekend... is there a link to a PDGA announcement on this topic somewhere?
 
All new molds are tested, and the rule states that manufacturers must send in the stiffest plastic they plan on producing that disc in. I still think it's a little silly to expect a tiny organization to test millions of discs every year. I haven't heard a good suggestion outside of people doing what is suggested by the PDGA: send in discs that they think are outside the tech specs so the PDGA can take action like they did on these wizards.

Millions? Really?
 
I would be willing to bet that innova alone puts out a 7 figure amount of discs in a year.
 
I'm not saying test every single disc. You're really taking this to an extreme. A new shipment of plastic and a few discs from each new mold run in that plastic. Maybe, if you can have a record of a mold that's easily within specs (maybe a pic of the disc being flexed in a way that proves it would pass) you don't have to send/test those. Just submit the proof.

Either way, it's kind of foolish to have a disc standard that isn't enforced until the discs are already circulating through the general public.
 
What's different from the current situation where manufacturers are supposed to send in their firmest discs for approval but clearly don't? Who's going around to all the manufacturers and checking up on them, and who's paying for that?
 
What's different from the current situation where manufacturers are supposed to send in their firmest discs for approval but clearly don't? Who's going around to all the manufacturers and checking up on them, and who's paying for that?

The pdga members are paying for it but I'm not sure who is doing the governing.
 
That's part of my point, it would cost a lot of money to have someone traveling around testing discs all the time and it's not like the PDGA is rolling in extra money. I certainly wouldn't want to see dues increased just to pay a traveling disc measurer.
 
That's part of my point, it would cost a lot of money to have someone traveling around testing discs all the time and it's not like the PDGA is rolling in extra money. I certainly wouldn't want to see dues increased just to pay a traveling disc measurer.

Maybe its the reporting that needs to change. I personally don't think it is my responsibility to send in three samples of a disc that is to firm. If all someone had to do was report it and the pdga would look into it that would be great. The response from the tech guy earlier in the thread made it sound like even that would be to hard for him to accomplish.
 
I'm more interested in refinement of the standard. Since that's been continually ignored, I've offered another solution of nannying. Refinement is cheaper and, in my opinion, more effective.

I would really be interested in a study regarding the potential damage caused by discs of different flex and wing configuration.
 
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All new molds are tested, and the rule states that manufacturers must send in the stiffest plastic they plan on producing that disc in. I still think it's a little silly to expect a tiny organization to test millions of discs every year. I haven't heard a good suggestion outside of people doing what is suggested by the PDGA: send in discs that they think are outside the tech specs so the PDGA can take action like they did on these wizards.

Maybe its the reporting that needs to change. I personally don't think it is my responsibility to send in three samples of a disc that is to firm. If all someone had to do was report it and the pdga would look into it that would be great. The response from the tech guy earlier in the thread made it sound like even that would be to hard for him to accomplish.

IMO, it sounds like a complete overhaul of the approval process is in order. Right now the PDGA is being to lenient during the approval process, as mashnut stated all NEW molds are tested and they must send in their stiffest plastic formulation. So basically, only new molds, not existing molds with new plastic.

I think granting an all encompassing PDGA Mold approval is a part of the problem. They should be testing the Mold and the Plastic formulation and granting PDGA approval to both, not just the Mold. For example...

Lat 64 River Mold + Opto line plastic meets PDGA guidelines - Approved.
Lat 64 River Mold + Gold Line plastic meets PDGA guidelines - Approved.
Lat 64 River Mold + Recycled plastic meets PDGA guidelines - *Pending*
so on and so on.

Right now, as I understand it, only the mold is approved not each specific type of plastic being run thru the mold. This gives the manufacturer room to tinker, experiment and manufacture whatever they want under the PDGA approved label because they are using an already approved mold.

By doing it this way it puts the manufacturer and consumer at risk of using an illegal product down the road should someone submit some samples for testing. This should be the exception to the rule, not the norm by which they do business. Manufacturers don't want to run 10,000 discs only to find they will be deemed illegal in 6 months. Customers dont want to buy a disc and maybe a few back-ups only to find out they will be outlawed in a year.

I think it is hilarious that the PDGA is putting all the work on everyone else, manufacturers after they ran the production run, consumers after they bought a disc stamped with PDGA APPROVED on it, and the TD's trying to run a tournament and prevent illegal discs from being used. Surely there has to be a better way to handle this, if only we had a real Professional Disc Golf Association. :sick::sick:
 
How many people would join that real PDGA if the dues were $150 instead of $50 to cover all the things you want them to do?
 
That's part of my point, it would cost a lot of money to have someone traveling around testing discs all the time and it's not like the PDGA is rolling in extra money. I certainly wouldn't want to see dues increased just to pay a traveling disc measurer.


I don't see why the players would have to pay for this in dues.
Hypothetically: Every time a company makes a new disc/mold , they pay to have it tested. I'd love to have Innova have to pay every time they tweaked a mold. I could see this benefitting in many ways.
 
If you are going to have an organization that approves equipment for tournament play, and declares some equipment illegal, then there has to be a standard in place that is mandated and consistently applied. If a manufacturer doesn't comply, then they are penalized. If the PDGA is going to be the governing body of the sport, then they need to act like it and be proactive on things like this.

If you cannot consistently apply this firmness rule (and it seems to me that it isn't consistently applied, since not all runs are tested and the PDGA seems to be content to sit and wait until someone has a problem with something before they rule on it) then the rule needs to be re-evaluated.

The people who are losing in this whole thing are the people who bought firm putters with PDGA Approved on them who now have discs they can't use in sanctioned play.
 
mash, you really need to start quoting posts in your replies.

If you are going to have an organization that approves equipment for tournament play, and declares some equipment illegal, then there has to be a standard in place that is mandated and consistently applied. If a manufacturer doesn't comply, then they are penalized. If the PDGA is going to be the governing body of the sport, then they need to act like it and be proactive on things like this.

If you cannot consistently apply this firmness rule (and it seems to me that it isn't consistently applied, since not all runs are tested and the PDGA seems to be content to sit and wait until someone has a problem with something before they rule on it) then the rule needs to be re-evaluated.

The people who are losing in this whole thing are the people who bought firm putters with PDGA Approved on them who now have discs they can't use in sanctioned play.

This. I guess being proactive just costs too much.
 
If you are going to have an organization that approves equipment for tournament play, and declares some equipment illegal, then there has to be a standard in place that is mandated and consistently applied. If a manufacturer doesn't comply, then they are penalized. If the PDGA is going to be the governing body of the sport, then they need to act like it and be proactive on things like this.

There's one of the real roots of the issue. How does a member run organization punish a business it has no real jurisdiction over? The manufacturers only follow PDGA rules because they want to, there's no teeth behind any of the tech specs.
 
I don't see why the players would have to pay for this in dues.
Hypothetically: Every time a company makes a new disc/mold , they pay to have it tested. I'd love to have Innova have to pay every time they tweaked a mold. I could see this benefitting in many ways.

This is more or less what I was thinking, Company X wants their disc approved so they send it to the PDGA for testing. Company X must submit at least 3 discs for approval/firmness testing and pay whatever fee it is to receive the approval. At time of approval the firmness is tested and then given thumbs Up or Down on results. Then that Mold + Plastic Type is now PDGA approved. :thmbup:

There's one of the real roots of the issue. How does a member run organization punish a business it has no real jurisdiction over? The manufacturers only follow PDGA rules because they want to, there's no teeth behind any of the tech specs.

Unfortunately this is the conclusion I also reached. :(:(
 
This is more or less what I was thinking, Company X wants their disc approved so they send it to the PDGA for testing. Company X must submit at least 3 discs for approval/firmness testing and pay whatever fee it is to receive the approval. At time of approval the firmness is tested and then given thumbs Up or Down on results. Then that Mold + Plastic Type is now PDGA approved. :thmbup:

How are you going to tell them apart? Aside from Millennium (which isn't even consistent), no one uniquely marks their runs.
 
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