[Discmania] Official Ask Discmania Thread

[soothsayer]

I seriously doubt that Discmania will drop the Original line. I'm guessing the announcement is about when they are estimating getting originals back in production

We can dream...

 

[pjhayes7]

If i had to guess, and that is all any of us are really doing, Innova owns the molds and just gives Discmania "exclusive use" of the mold piece combinations used to make the Originals. But of course there is the speculation that there are several non Discmania molds that are the exact same as the P2. Either way, if i had to bet, the announcement will probably be a halt in production for the rest of the year or so.

Although i would not put it past Innova, especially if they own the molds, that they are dissolving the relationship and will then begin molding the most popular as special releases to be sold kind of like the tour series discs.

Ultimately, this all depends on the contracts between the two companies and how strong one side is compared to the other.

 

[sandelius]

I believe Discmania drops Originals line. Discmania has non-disc golfer board members. They don't care if some die hard fans don't get to throw Originals molds. They care if one of the three manufacturers does not cooperate.

 

[wolfhaley]

I believe Discmania drops Originals line. Discmania has non-disc golfer board members. They don't care if some die hard fans don't get to throw Originals molds. They care if one of the three manufacturers does not cooperate.

That's what it's looking like to me too. Not by their choice though. Westside is still a thing because of the "Trilogy" moniker, but they've done nothing to really keep that ship afloat. Discmania is a huge draw. It just feels like a Lat 64/Discmania merger is in the offing. If you can't beat em, join em.

 

[Jolt]

Who owns Lat64? and how own Discmania?

 

[Rol6566]

Newest post per Jussi on Facebook

"I have got a massive amount of questions and comments about Discmania Originals from our fans. Many of them are about molds and rights. To clarify:
Innova owns all molds and mold parts that are used to make Discmania Originals. They control that. Discmania own all their disc names."

 

[Jolt]

Newest post per Jussi on Facebook

"I have got a massive amount of questions and comments about Discmania Originals from our fans. Many of them are about molds and rights. To clarify:
Innova owns all molds and mold parts that are used to make Discmania Originals. They control that. Discmania own all their disc names."

So does that mean that Dismania can have Lat64 make a new mold part and make the "Originals"?
If Discmania owns the name FD2 then they could just let Lat64 make a disc and then call it "FD2"

"New Originals" - - like "new Coke", and we know how that worked out. . .

 

[soothsayer]

Newest post per Jussi on Facebook

"I have got a massive amount of questions and comments about Discmania Originals from our fans. Many of them are about molds and rights. To clarify:
Innova owns all molds and mold parts that are used to make Discmania Originals. They control that. Discmania own all their disc names."

Its looking more and more like the Originals are going away... I wonder if Infinite will just start ordering all the Originals and give them different names? I would LOVE that, especially since Infinite runs all their discs in awesome plastics on a regular basis, instead of just once in a while getting some color glow discs or some metal flakes. Being able to get Color Glow "MD3"s for less than 150$ would be a nice change lol.

 

[VictorB]

So does that mean that Dismania can have Lat64 make a new mold part and make the "Originals"?
If Discmania owns the name FD2 then they could just let Lat64 make a disc and then call it "FD2"

"New Originals" - - like "new Coke", and we know how that worked out. . .

Sure, if they re-submit the new mold for approval. Nothing stopping them from changing what an FD2 is.


I feel like DM/Jussi really f'd this whole thing up. Years ago they could have re-invested in their company and infrastructure and figured out a way to procure the Innova owned molds to press their own discs. Now, they're left with begging for the scraps of time that other companies can afford to give them during the biggest disc golf boon the sport has ever seen. I think that they took a shortcut and it's going to kill their business in the end, especially if they discontinue the originals line. Would Simon and Eagle even stay on board if they can't get the discs they need? Their best discs are basically entirely from the originals line, not to mention all of their signature discs.

For a company that is relatively the same age, look at what MVP has done by reinvesting into their own company. I think that if Discmania had made that decision years ago to press their own discs, they could have enjoyed the same success that MVP has

 

[soothsayer]

Sure, if they re-submit the new mold for approval. Nothing stopping them from changing what an FD2 is.


I feel like DM/Jussi really f'd this whole thing up. Years ago they could have re-invested in their company and infrastructure and figured out a way to procure the Innova owned molds to press their own discs. Now, they're left with begging for the scraps of time that other companies can afford to give them during the biggest disc golf boon the sport has ever seen. I think that they took a shortcut and it's going to kill their business in the end, especially if they discontinue the originals line. Would Simon and Eagle even stay on board if they can't get the discs they need? Their best discs are basically entirely from the originals line, not to mention all of their signature discs.

For a company that is relatively the same age, look at what MVP has done by reinvesting into their own company. I think that if Discmania had made that decision years ago to press their own discs, they could have enjoyed the same success that MVP has

Agreed. Also, I wonder how much Simon and Eagle have missed out on disc sales compared to other pros. For example, the Innova tour series has been pumping out discs for the champion and star teams pretty much all year and those things basically all sell out, every time. The best Discmania could do was put some extra stamps on some Evo line discs for Eagle winning Pro Tour events, or sell some leftover Tilts when EAGLE won the LVC. I understand their loyalty of course, but these are two of the most marketable pros in the game, and signature/tour series discs would INSTANTLY sell out for them every time. They are for sure losing money by not having their discs available all the time (or even AT ALL).

I think one of the reasons they decided to start pumping out overstable discs in the Evo line is so Eagle can actually bag the molds (Splice, Mutant, Razor Claw 2). And making a P2-alike disc in the Logic. I wonder what will happen when they can't throw the DD3/Cloudbreakers anymore or putt with P2s...

Of course, this is all pure speculation at this point, but its looking more and more likely.

 

[seedlings]

We'll find out something on the 21st. It might just be an announcement about future production, without too much emphasis on why.

I think what we will get is a version of the story that Discmania chooses to tell, and then Innova will tell some version of the story, and then people will argue about what the "truth" actually is. To some extent, both versions are likely to be partially true, and from a certain perspective.

Whether we ever get anything past that? Who knows. It also depends on whether there will be any ongoing relationship between Innova and Discmania. I have no idea if they are announcing limited future availability, unknown future availability, or some sort of complete break between the brands.

Newest post per Jussi on Facebook

"I have got a massive amount of questions and comments about Discmania Originals from our fans. Many of them are about molds and rights. To clarify:
Innova owns all molds and mold parts that are used to make Discmania Originals. They control that. Discmania own all their disc names."

This was easy to see coming... and now we know why.

 

[soothsayer]

Remember all those times Simon threw the Shadow Titan in Portland? /S

 

[seedlings]

Remember all those times Simon threw the Shadow Titan in Portland? /S

Usually his approach after an Enigma drive, iirc.

 

[TheOtherBill]

IIRC Jussi had to DNF an event years ago to travel to see a sick family member. Since then he has spent a lot of time of the Discgolfpark work and moved his focus from making discs. No way to see this COVID surge coming, or even Simon's injury and well-publicized return, or even the amazing success Eagle has had this year to drive sales crazy.

It was a sort of perfect storm that coincided with the timing of the Innova/Discmania molding agreement.

 

[VictorB]

IIRC Jussi had to DNF an event years ago to travel to see a sick family member. Since then he has spent a lot of time of the Discgolfpark work and moved his focus from making discs. No way to see this COVID surge coming, or even Simon's injury and well-publicized return, or even the amazing success Eagle has had this year to drive sales crazy.

It was a sort of perfect storm that coincided with the timing of the Innova/Discmania molding agreement.

I think this angle would be more buyable if the company hadn't been around for 15 years already. I find it really hard to believe that the recent success of the last 4 years has snuck up in them in a way they couldn't act on it

 

[Rastnav]

This was easy to see coming... and now we know why.

a) We don't know what exactly is coming.
b) Every brand has had issues with supply meeting demand in the pandemic, although this is also clearly more than just that.
c) Any, and I mean any, partnership between two different companies can go south, but it's hardly inevitable. You may ask yourself, is this Infinite Disc's beautiful house? (i.e. Do you think Infinite Discs is currently making a mistake? Probably not, right?)
d) It's always been known (I believe) that Discmania OL discs were reshuffled tops and bottoms of existing Innova molds. That Innova owns those molds and mold designs should not be a surprise. I don't think this is really new info.
e) For those who think that Discmania should have taken steps to ensure they weren't in this situation, by owning their own molds and making sure their production wasn't completely controlled by Innova, what makes you think that the issues now aren't directly tied to DM doing just that? Sourcing manufacturing from other sources is the quickest path to getting their own molds out there. Yeah, it's probably in DMs best interest long term to bring manufacturing in-house, but waiting on that would delay the ownership of molds (assuming that DM does own the molds of the new lines).
f) The cluster-effness of this is greatly exaggerated by the double-whammy of Simon and Eagle hitting huge at exactly the same time as COVID bringing unprecedented growth to the game. That was certainly not predictable 2 years ago. Blaming DM for failing to be completely ready for a global pandemic to hit is a very "hindsight is 20/20".

 

[biscoe]

I think this angle would be more buyable if the company hadn't been around for 15 years already. I find it really hard to believe that the recent success of the last 4 years has snuck up in them in a way they couldn't act on it

They were acting on the last 4 years when they expanded their lines. The issues are from the last 15 months which have screwed up pretty much every company in the industry.

 

[VictorB]

They were acting on the last 4 years when they expanded their lines. The issues are from the last 15 months which have screwed up pretty much every company in the industry.

My point is that they have had more than ample opportunity to insulate their company and not be nearly as dependent of the whims of others.

I think they really dropped the ball on reinvestment into their own infrastructure and they are paying a supreme price for that right now. What's happening now was likely avoidable if they had invested in becoming more independent.

I'm not faulting them for the pandemic - but there has certainly been availability and production issues from 2019 and prior that were never solved.

 

[seedlings]

a) We don't know what exactly is coming.
b) Every brand has had issues with supply meeting demand in the pandemic, although this is also clearly more than just that.
c) Any, and I mean any, partnership between two different companies can go south, but it's hardly inevitable. You may ask yourself, is this Infinite Disc's beautiful house? (i.e. Do you think Infinite Discs is currently making a mistake? Probably not, right?)
d) It's always been known (I believe) that Discmania OL discs were reshuffled tops and bottoms of existing Innova molds. That Innova owns those molds and mold designs should not be a surprise. I don't think this is really new info.
e) For those who think that Discmania should have taken steps to ensure they weren't in this situation, by owning their own molds and making sure their production wasn't completely controlled by Innova, what makes you think that the issues now aren't directly tied to DM doing just that? Sourcing manufacturing from other sources is the quickest path to getting their own molds out there. Yeah, it's probably in DMs best interest long term to bring manufacturing in-house, but waiting on that would delay the ownership of molds (assuming that DM does own the molds of the new lines).
f) The cluster-effness of this is greatly exaggerated by the double-whammy of Simon and Eagle hitting huge at exactly the same time as COVID bringing unprecedented growth to the game. That was certainly not predictable 2 years ago. Blaming DM for failing to be completely ready for a global pandemic to hit is a very "hindsight is 20/20".

Well at least DM will fill us in as early as next week on the issue from over a year ago when they added L64 and Yikun, frustrating relationship with Innova?

Look, I was just getting 8nto disc golf last year and figuring out discs and brands and discovering what I liked and what discs I wanted to add. Eagle and Simon are certainly influencers with more personality than some other high profile pros. Just about the time I can start throwing discs the way they were supposed to fly, I can't buy another P2. I can't try an MD, let alone throw a DD3. I had no problem waiting until covid settled down and discs were being made again. It just turns out they're not the discs I'd delayed hopes to incorporate into my game.

But, I'm a one-off random guy on the internet, so no big loss for DM. I'll politely bow out of the discussion unless there is Original stock coming back.

 

[soothsayer]

They were acting on the last 4 years when they expanded their lines. The issues are from the last 15 months which have screwed up pretty much every company in the industry.

Except almost every other company has been able to beef up production (MVP, Discraft, even Innova producing tons of discs for Infinite).