On the edge of professional Disc Golf

[Nemmers]

...other than the missing words and poor grammer...

Ba-dump-bum...

 

[Darth Anovin]

Here. Got myself. Cuz this is exactly how I feel when I see people get hammered on the course.

 

[PMcBeth]

Pay to play is a horrible idea and would just deter people from playing. That's why disc golf is great, because it's free! And if you consider how much people play then we would end up spending thousands just to go to a local park. I think if you give it a few years it will be like skateboarding and become huge.

Don't we already "pay" for our parks through taxes? Don't be elitists about our game that is for everyone. Plus over-commercialization of anything can be bad. If it's not broken don't fix it

Do you play at a Pay-to-play course or have you ever? I grew up on a pay to play course, Free to players under 16 which increased our youth players but my point is our 2 most crowded courses are Pay to play Huntington Beach DGC which ranges from 150 to 300+ daily and I know Morley field in San Diego which is twice as expensive but generates twice as many people daily. So in my opinion Pay to play increases players to come because it brings a more formal and i guess you could say "safe" feeling because people are paying so there will always be someone of business at the course looking over the course.

 

[disc qualified]

paul, as a professional in a sport that seems to struggle with its identity and image, do you think the drunk and stoned stereotypes are hurting and preventing major sponsors from investing? or is it more about the lack of casual public support, ie: average people aren't interested in watching competitive disc golf?

 

[DanJon]

They been doing this for skateboarding & snowboarding for over a decade or two so they are making money some how.
Hell if women's basketball can acquire major sponsor's, I'm sure disc golf can. It's all based on having the right people who know how to sell the sport.

So naive.

Skateboarding and snowboarding sold the lifestyle aspect. Not just the sport.

How many people do you know who wear skate gear and don't even skate?

DC, Billabong, Etnie's, etc, etc.

That and like Mike C said, its much more exciting to watch skating and snowboarding.

And much easier to film it and present it as a product.

 

[Sean_WV]

Why would you want to create a base of professionalism based on another sport, just because of their similar names? How about we lobby the NFL to put goals in the end-zones since Football sounds a lot like Futball? This game was built on the backs of stoners and drunks! It is also one of the few sports where it is ok to be moderately intoxicated while still playing at a competition level, and that sounds like a sticking point to me... Perhaps it's just how I grew up playing as a kid and seeing the same culture, I mean one of my favorite courses is Long Trout Winery!

For those of you who are having problems with people of your local course, the solution is not to ban being intoxicated or make the courses pay to play, the problem sounds to me like course overpopulation, because here in WV we don't have that problem, and trust me, people have no problem getting intoxicated. The real answer is to build more courses, and courses for all levels of ability.

 

[JC17393]

They been doing this for skateboarding & snowboarding for over a decade or two so they are making money some how.
Hell if women's basketball can acquire major sponsor's, I'm sure disc golf can. It's all based on having the right people who know how to sell the sport.

We like to talk about how fast disc golf is growing, but the fact of the matter is we still pale in comparison to skateboarding, snowboarding, and certainly women's basketball in terms of participation, awareness, and interest. We're not going to attract major sponsors until our participation AND spectating numbers a whole hell of a lot bigger.

 

[Tpro]

Interestingly, from a pro, he reached the conclusion that they need fans. A notion that seems to have escaped many of the pros, and others who think that the pros should make money just because they're good at disc golf. That, in itself, is refreshing.

I think he is beyond the thinking of your average pro. Which is a good thing but it just came across like all the things I've heard from every other promoter (Maceman, Chuckster, etc).

Ba-dump-bum...

Yaaaay we have a winner!:clap:

 

[Darth Anovin]

paul, as a professional in a sport that seems to struggle with its identity and image, do you think the drunk and stoned stereotypes are hurting and preventing major sponsors from investing? or is it more about the lack of casual public support, ie: average people aren't interested in watching competitive disc golf?

Well I'm not Paul so you probably won't care as much, but I'd like to answer that question anyway.... I think maybe it's a little bit of both. We all know the stereotypes that come along with being a disc golfer. And in turn, that pushes away the casual public support. I can't count anymore the number of times that I've had to try to CONVINCE someone that just because I play disc golf that I don't use any particular controlled substances. Normally I don't give a rats ass what people think I do in my free time. But this is different. And as long as we have the "hippie" stereotype, we won't get the public support we need to grow the sport. Let me paint this picture for you and then you tell me if this could possibly happen: A big sporting goods company, let's use Nike, is interested in dg because they see that it IS growing. Then they're research department yields results of all the less than upstanding activities that happen to be associated with our sport. Do you think they're gonna put they're name on it? I think not.

 

[superium]

So naive.

Skateboarding and snowboarding sold the lifestyle aspect. Not just the sport.

How many people do you know who wear skate gear and don't even skate?

DC, Billabong, Etnie's, etc, etc.

That and like Mike C said, its much more exciting to watch skating and snowboarding.

And much easier to film it and present it as a product.

Being a sponsored skateboarder in the late 90s and early 2000s, I see many similarities between the 3 sports in the growth and from a lifestyle aspect. Those 2 sports are dying off yet are still get millions dumped into them. These sponsors will soon be looking into other events/sports to advertise in and no reason why they can't make disc golf related clothing, shoes, etc.

 

[New013]

this topic always makes me laugh. i think it's great there are people working hard to advance that side of disc golf, it'll only push more people in to the sport and therefore increase my options in discs/courses/equipment..

however the idea that anyone has the power to decide how people enjoy the sport is ****ing lunacy. you do not get to tell me how to live my life just because we play the same sport and you do not get to tell anyone else how to live their life.

if people want to wear a speedo out to a course and drink beer while they disc they have a right to as long as it in accordance with local law. if people want to get baked as a clam while they disc they have that right to as long as it is in accordance with local law.

personally if disc golf never gets that big in my lifetime i'll be okay with that. the day our culture turns in to just another bull**** bag of fake statutes telling people what they can and can't do while they throw plastic through the air is the day this sport will die. then we'll just have a bunch of corporate bull**** money grabs and no soul.

 

[Nemmers]

Didn't read the article, but for professionalism to occur Pay to Play is the way to go. No you don't necessarily pay to play BBall at a public park. But if you want to play professionally at even the lowest possible level you (someone) pays for court time.

Your tax dollars pay for your court time (regardless of what level you play at) if you're playing at a public park. I'm not sure how the simple fact that baskets are installed and courses are created in public parks translates to DG becoming more professional.

Now I've played some serious, but not professional Softball. A Statewide slow pitch co-rec league. We paid for the privilege. Paid for our exclusive use of the diamonds. We paid for the umps, professional umps.

Me too, and point taken. However, entry fees in local tournaments pays for that for disc golf.

But we aren't talking BBall. And we aren't talking softball either. we're talking about GOLF. Disc golf, but golf nonetheless. And where are professional golf tournaments played?

I wonder if that's the point though? How many disc golfers are out to become professional? And how many could? And how many care about the professional aspect? Not many, I imagine. Some just enjoy the aesthetic aspects of the sport and like to see it played at the top level. Some (like me) fall asleep watching The Ryder Cup and, while they may enjoy checking out a tournament played at a course they're familiar with, couldn't care less about ever attending a pro or A-tier event purely as a spectator.

At pay to play courses. In fact every golf course is pay to play. Private, Semi-private, resort & public golf courses are all pay to play. A golf course (and this includes disc golf) requires specific maintenance. Meticulous maintenance if you want to attract the cream of the crop. That costs money that anything other than pay to play simply can't afford let a lone sustain.

I see your point, but disc golf (so far as I can see) doesn't have nearly the numbers of "cream of the crop" players to make an individual or organization who would or could spend the money on a top-shelf, pay-to-play course viable. There are simply too many free courses out there that broke-a$$ disc golfers would rather spend their time. Sure, they may venture out once in a while after tax returns, but it wouldn't be enough to justify the initial investment.

Pay to play is the way to professionalism.

You've got some very valid, logical points, brother, but I disc golf just isn't there yet. And based on the historical trend, I'm not sure it ever will be. It's a grass-roots sport and that's really the reason many people took it up and continue playing. Charging for the pipe-dream of "professionalizing the sport" only to pad the pockets of the very few who would compete ostracizes the people who've made the sport what it is today.

Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Darth Anovin]

if people want to wear a speedo out to a course and drink beer while they disc they have a right to as long as it in accordance with local law. if people want to get baked as a clam while they disc they have that right to as long as it is in accordance with local law.

Well if that's your defense, allow me to rebuttal. Most public parks, alcohol is prohibited. And I'm pretty sure unless you're in Colorado or Washington, getting "baked as a clam" is illegal no matter where you are or what you're doing. So there you have it. Disc golfers = habitual law breakers. Good job!

 

[Okie-J]

I think with the PDGA needs to latch on with the legalize it movement and momentum that is sweeping the country. Instead of down playing or hiding that aspect of the sport they should encourage and promote it. There you go, something unique and something that is already trending. Don't miss the boat PDGA.

Because DG is a "heads" sport. Always was and always will be.

Stop dreaming of getting major sponsors like Nike. They are a poser company anyway. They come late to every sport. Skatebording was doing it's own thing long before Nike wanted a piece of the action.


So if you really want sponsors hit up companies relevant to our sport. Hit up ZigZag and Job rolling papers. Natural light beer. Maybe hit up the bigger dispensaries in Cali. and CO. And for sure look into talking to the Vaporizer companies. That chit is big time on the DG courses right now.

 

[Nemmers]

Do you play at a Pay-to-play course or have you ever? I grew up on a pay to play course, Free to players under 16 which increased our youth players but my point is our 2 most crowded courses are Pay to play Huntington Beach DGC which ranges from 150 to 300+ daily and I know Morley field in San Diego which is twice as expensive but generates twice as many people daily. So in my opinion Pay to play increases players to come because it brings a more formal and i guess you could say "safe" feeling because people are paying so there will always be someone of business at the course looking over the course.

Paul, you play (and win) at the top levels of the sport, so your opinion as a professional is validated by virtue of not only your success but your experience. However -- for the average, everyday player that you once were -- do you honestly believe that pay-to-play is the best way to "professionalize" disc golf?

As a newbie to the game, my opinion is irrelevant based on my limited experience, but based on the exponential and undeniable growth of disc golf over the years and the vast increase in courses all over the United States and abroad, I don't see how charging entry for courses adds value to the game. Basically, I think what's been happening -- courses springing up in local parks with no fee for a round -- are what will make this sport an eventual powerhouse....NOT the creation of a limited number Valhalla-type pay-to-play courses maintained by a yet-unknown and unseen benefactor.

The ones that exist are not "bad" or "wrong" and I do not for one second begrudge a course owner/maintainer who charges a nominal fee for the use of their land and equipment. I just don't see them as the Messiah for disc golf.

Again, just my two cents -- your mileage will undoubtedly vary.

 

[ohtobediscing]

Nicely voiced, Nemmers.

If you eliminate/stop building free courses, disc manufacturers will lose half their customer base---including the chuckers who gladly fork out cash for the newest warp-speed drivers.
Meanwhile the best p2p courses aren't usually quite close enough to large pop centers to make everyday trips feasible. Even those of us with the maturity, wherewithall, and inclination for p2p can't give up 1 1/2 hours of playing time everyday to drive to a course [when I was a crazy kayaker my friends and I instituted a rule that we could not spend more time driving to and from the river than we did kayaking it].
Don't get me wrong---I have a state park pass and hit Milo, Dabney, Stub Stewart, Blue Lake, and Rooster Rock often enough. And the Horning complex, when the owners are in a good mood.

But the free-course public stokes the machine as much as myself and my variously-accomplished buddies.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

We're not going to attract major sponsors until our participation AND spectating numbers get a whole hell of a lot bigger.

This.

The overwhelming majority of ball golf fans are also casual/amateur players. Bigger overall fan base means more eyes on the sponsors. Disc golf simply does not have enough numbers to make the sponsor investment worthwhile.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

And almost every other sport have been around for at least DOUBLE the time frame.

 

[BirdieMachine]

Personally I enjoy where disc golf is at now and where it is going. I like having inexpensive pay to play courses as well as free ones.

I would enjoy seeing the professional side grow and be shown on ESPN but I also don't mind where it is at now. The sport still needs to get bigger I think before we see ESPN type of coverage. TV coverage = Big Sponsers = More fans = Bigger purses = Sport Growth.

Ball golf has been on TV for about 60 years. As a avid player and fan of both sports I think that disc golf would be more exciting to watch. In ball golf it is hard to see the flight of the ball since it is so small and going much further. You can much easier pick up the flight of a disc and watch the flight.

 

[DavidSauls]

In ball golf it is hard to see the flight of the ball since it is so small and going much further. You can much easier pick up the flight of a disc and watch the flight.

Except, of course, for putts, where even non-golfers like myself can be amazed watching the ball curve perfectly with the slope of the green, plopping into the cup with an amazing accuracy, considering the ratio of length of putt to size of target.