One leg drill, stupid question.

[sidewinder22]

What do you mean?

Your upper body tips over back and forth instead of the lower body shifting/swinging forward underneath to balance on front leg. If your front leg gave out you would fall over while Marc would fall under.

 

[RoDeO]

Your upper body tips over back and forth instead of the lower body shifting/swinging forward underneath to balance on front leg. If your front leg gave out you would fall over while Marc would fall under.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I do feel my weight shift completely to my front leg as I pull the disc into the power pocket and into full brace pressure.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I do feel my weight shift completely to my front leg as I pull the disc into the power pocket and into full brace pressure.

Look at the first pic and where your rear hip/knee are(back) compared to Marc(forward).

Your spine is moving like a metronome instead of a pendulum.

What does full brace pressure mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxWrhTsTeho#t=3m5s

 

[RoDeO]

Look at the first pic and where your rear hip/knee are(back) compared to Marc(forward).

Your spine is moving like a metronome instead of a pendulum.

What does full brace pressure mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxWrhTsTeho#t=3m5s

And why should my spine move like a pendulum exactly? Looks like lots of pros spine are in all different positions and motions.
I still don't see the weight issue. Is it timing? I say this because as O throw I can feel a lot of pressure on my front leg.

 

[SaROCaM]

And why should my spine move like a pendulum exactly? Looks like lots of pros spine are in all different positions and motions.
I still don't see the weight issue. Is it timing? I say this because as O throw I can feel a lot of pressure on my front leg.

You are leaning back then tipping over. Imagine a spinning top whose axis tips over...it crashes forward, like how you end up falling forward in your follow through.

If you shift onto your front leg then your rotation will be on a more solid axis like Marc's. Instead of tipping over you will be more balanced and upright at the finish instead of tipping forward.

 

[sidewinder22]

And why should my spine move like a pendulum exactly? Looks like lots of pros spine are in all different positions and motions.
I still don't see the weight issue. Is it timing? I say this because as O throw I can feel a lot of pressure on my front leg.

Pressure doesn't = balance/posture. We would see a fundamental difference on force plates in the way you are shifting pressure vs any pro throughout the entire dynamic swing, not just a static point or time or moment like you keep talking about, moment of brace and moment of weightshift - I don't know what these mean, never heard anyone use those phrases.

 

[RoDeO]

You are leaning back then tipping over. Imagine a spinning top whose axis tips over...it crashes forward, like how you end up falling forward in your follow through.

If you shift onto your front leg then your rotation will be on a more solid axis like Marc's. Instead of tipping over you will be more balanced and upright at the finish instead of tipping forward.

I'm not falling forward. I have momentum carrying me forward in the follow through but I feel very balanced. I'm thinking of James Conrad who has a crazy runup and that carries forward into his follow through. It's his style. It's not hurting him.

Throwing is about feel. I feel extremely balanced in my throw- like just the right amount of weight on my plant leg at the moment of acceleration and release.

 

[NoseDownKing]

I'm not falling forward. I have momentum carrying me forward in the follow through but I feel very balanced. I'm thinking of James Conrad who has a crazy runup and that carries forward into his follow through. It's his style. It's not hurting him.



Throwing is about feel. I feel extremely balanced in my throw- like just the right amount of weight on my plant leg at the moment of acceleration and release.

Are you throwing 550' like Conrad though? I think you're being indenial.

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[RoDeO]

Pressure doesn't = balance/posture. We would see a fundamental difference on force plates in the way you are shifting pressure vs any pro throughout the entire dynamic swing, not just a static point or time or moment like you keep talking about, moment of brace and moment of weightshift - I don't know what these mean, never heard anyone use those phrases.

Every player, pro or not, has a weight shift where the majority of their weight shifts from rear leg into the front leg. There's a specific moment in that shift where the pressure maxes downward into the ground. It is directly associated with the brace moment. At that moment I am looking at how much twist or load there is on the hips in relation to the shoulder angle and where the disc is in its journey towards release.

One of the problems I see in these forums with freezing video images is that one can take one player and compare him with another when certain events appear to be happening but in reality aren't frozen at the right time as per each person's own mechanics, timing, and style. Some players will reach back sooner, some later. Some will shift quicker, some later. Some will have a quicker pull into the power pocket, some more delayed. What I fail to see most of the time is freezing the frame at the crucial events. For example- just because a player may have his front foot in full contact with the ground doesn't mean anything for determining the moment of weight shift and max brace pressure. Then it compounds when you factor in that each player has slightly different timing and hip and torso rotation angles.

The bottom line is, it's really hard, if not impossible to just freeze a frame and then try to compare him with someone else who may be, and probably is, in a different point in the delivery. Im afraid of the cookie cutter approach. Just because one certain pro or amateur steps a certain way doesn't mean everyone should do the same.

The actual moments of actual weight shift and brace max pressure and their relation to where the disc is has more to identifying problems or strong points than almost anything else. Weight shift is a transition. That happens just prior to max weight or brace pressure. I can always tell, right before I release the disc, if the throw will be powerful or weak. Thats because I am feeling the torque in my torso and shoulders at the moments right before and around the max brace pressure moment.

I do this little drill where I will just go halfway and stop around the point where I bring the disc into my abdomen/chest area. I am specifically looking for and feeling the torque and its relation to the brace moment. That monent should feel like a great buildup of pressure and torque. That's because after the disc is into the power pocket, the kinetic energy is already being released. Many players speak of a steady acceleration into release. This is somewhat true. It's true for the end appendage of the arm. But at release, the max torque of the hips and torso is already decelerating, they are already past their maximum acceleration and power moments. It's just like a whip. By the time the end of the crack of a bull whip happens, the hand has already slowed down or stopped.

 

[RoDeO]

Are you throwing 550' like Conrad though? I think you're being indenial.

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Why is it that you can take a super slow x step guy like Tristan Tanner and a really fast x step guy like Conrad and yet their distances are similar?

I've been throwing 3 months. Time will tell on where my distance ends up. I know that Im perfectly happy with my distance right now, it's more than I set my goal for. But, like everyone else, who doesn't want to continue to improve their distance?

It would be a different story completely if, after playing for 3 months, my max distance was only 200 feet and I was maxing effort into that 200 foot throw.

 

[sidewinder22]

Every player, pro or not, has a weight shift where the majority of their weight shifts from rear leg into the front leg. There's a specific moment in that shift where the pressure maxes downward into the ground. It is directly associated with the brace moment. At that moment I am looking at how much twist or load there is on the hips in relation to the shoulder angle and where the disc is in its journey towards release.

One of the problems I see in these forums with freezing video images is that one can take one player and compare him with another when certain events appear to be happening but in reality aren't frozen at the right time as per each person's own mechanics, timing, and style. Some players will reach back sooner, some later. Some will shift quicker, some later. Some will have a quicker pull into the power pocket, some more delayed. What I fail to see most of the time is freezing the frame at the crucial events. For example- just because a player may have his front foot in full contact with the ground doesn't mean anything for determining the moment of weight shift and max brace pressure. Then it compounds when you factor in that each player has slightly different timing and hip and torso rotation angles.

The bottom line is, it's really hard, if not impossible to just freeze a frame and then try to compare him with someone else who may be, and probably is, in a different point in the delivery. Im afraid of the cookie cutter approach. Just because one certain pro or amateur steps a certain way doesn't mean everyone should do the same.

The actual moments of actual weight shift and brace max pressure and their relation to where the disc is has more to identifying problems or strong points than almost anything else. Weight shift is a transition. That happens just prior to max weight or brace pressure. I can always tell, right before I release the disc, if the throw will be powerful or weak. Thats because I am feeling the torque in my torso and shoulders at the moments right before and around the max brace pressure moment.

I do this little drill where I will just go halfway and stop around the point where I bring the disc into my abdomen/chest area. I am specifically looking for and feeling the torque and its relation to the brace moment. That monent should feel like a great buildup of pressure and torque. That's because after the disc is into the power pocket, the kinetic energy is already being released. Many players speak of a steady acceleration into release. This is somewhat true. It's true for the end appendage of the arm. But at release, the max torque of the hips and torso is already decelerating, they are already past their maximum acceleration and power moments. It's just like a whip. By the time the end of the crack of a bull whip happens, the hand has already slowed down or stopped.

 

[RoDeO]

Interesting that where one sees almost exact similarities I see vast differences.

 

[RoDeO]

Try comparing Paige Pierce to Paige Shue. They have the same first name and sometimes play together on the same card. Oh, they are both pros too.

 

[scooby snack]

I like the bottom GIF in this post.

 

[SaROCaM]

Interesting that where one sees almost exact similarities I see vast differences.

Focusing on the similarities will be more useful than focusing on the differences. Don't let the tail wag the dog.

In endeavors where people are successful, the ones who are successful do the same things that account for 80% of what makes them successful. The 20% differences are the individual differences that don't matter as much.

The 20% stuff makes it look like there is a vast difference in how to throw. The important things, the 80% things, are the same. This is why batting, golf, disc golf, etc. are comparable in terms of power generation. While there are differences in individual anatomy, mobility, etc., general anatomy and physics are the same.

If you look at the post at the top of this section titled "Common Plateaus, Issues, and Breaking Through Them" you will find the following under the "~350' Barrier" portion of the post:

Problems:
not good bracing/weight transfer, tipping over the front foot

If/when you throw 450' compare your form then to your form now. You will see a difference in the important parts.

 

[befree1231]

Just want to say that I've gotten a ton of useful little nuggets out of this thread and it's making things click in a way they haven't before, even though I understood all the concepts conceptually. Not the flat-earther type argument that's the basis of this thread, but random little things people have said trying to explain how they process it themselves has made this thread one of the most helpful/informative for fixing my own form (At least I think so, we'll see what the field work says) So, thanks for that y'all.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Just want to say that I've gotten a ton of useful little nuggets out of this thread and it's making things click in a way they haven't before, even though I understood all the concepts conceptually. Not the flat-earther type argument that's the basis of this thread, but random little things people have said trying to explain how they process it themselves has made this thread one of the most helpful/informative for fixing my own form (At least I think so, we'll see what the field work says) So, thanks for that y'all.

Haha flat-earther type. Couldn't agree more

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[RFrance]

Just want to say that I've gotten a ton of useful little nuggets out of this thread and it's making things click in a way they haven't before, even though I understood all the concepts conceptually. Not the flat-earther type argument that's the basis of this thread, but random little things people have said trying to explain how they process it themselves has made this thread one of the most helpful/informative for fixing my own form (At least I think so, we'll see what the field work says) So, thanks for that y'all.

I totally agree.

 

[RoDeO]

Focusing on the similarities will be more useful than focusing on the differences. Don't let the tail wag the dog.

In endeavors where people are successful, the ones who are successful do the same things that account for 80% of what makes them successful. The 20% differences are the individual differences that don't matter as much.

The 20% stuff makes it look like there is a vast difference in how to throw. The important things, the 80% things, are the same. This is why batting, golf, disc golf, etc. are comparable in terms of power generation. While there are differences in individual anatomy, mobility, etc., general anatomy and physics are the same.

If you look at the post at the top of this section titled "Common Plateaus, Issues, and Breaking Through Them" you will find the following under the "~350' Barrier" portion of the post:

Problems:
not good bracing/weight transfer, tipping over the front foot

If/when you throw 450' compare your form then to your form now. You will see a difference in the important parts.

Maybe so, hard to say. I dont think I've changed very much mechanics wise in where I started at to where I'm at now. There's a few small things like shoulder position, x step speed, etc, but everything generally feels the same. The big difference between when I started and now is that I feel quicker and more powerful now.

For the time being I don't feel a need to change anything big. I feel like my weight shift is ideal and my brace is adequate for my power at this point. Stronger weight shift and brace come with more power. More power takes time.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Maybe so, hard to say. I dont think I've changed very much mechanics wise in where I started at to where I'm at now. There's a few small things like shoulder position, x step speed, etc, but everything generally feels the same. The big difference between when I started and now is that I feel quicker and more powerful now.



For the time being I don't feel a need to change anything big. I feel like my weight shift is ideal and my brace is adequate for my power at this point. Stronger weight shift and brace come with more power. More power takes time.

Ok

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