Rocking the Hips

[sidewinder22]

For 'rocking the hips' demo, go to 10:45 in this video and watch Emerson Keith's drive. Also Barsby asks 'how'd he do that? How did he do that?'

He crushed the crap out of the can.

 

[sidewinder22]

Man this is fantastic. I'm a big fan of swing thoughts that allow me to perform an action I do in every day life. Thinking about shifting laterally underneath something immediately helped me shift and compress better than I ever have.

Bradley Williams has some coaching sessions on his YouTube and I watched him try to explain shifting to one of his students. Feel like we need to let him in on some of SocraDeez gems

I don't like the motion he is demonstrating, his CoG is moving like a rainbow and peaking height at center, instead of doing the limbo or half pipe with CoG lower in the center.

 

[SocraDeez]

Man this is fantastic. I'm a big fan of swing thoughts that allow me to perform an action I do in every day life. Thinking about shifting laterally underneath something immediately helped me shift and compress better than I ever have.

Bradley Williams has some coaching sessions on his YouTube and I watched him try to explain shifting to one of his students. Feel like we need to let him in on some of SocraDeez gems

For sure, spread the good word, man, but please don't give me credit. I think there was a South Park episode about it, but you know what they say: "SW22 already did it!" Or HUB; or BlakeT; or the Mikes; etc. etc. etc.

I haven't tried using it specifically as a swing thought, but hope it helps! I was just struck by how similar the feeling was - that is, how trying to move laterally beneath something like say a laser beam* really exaggerates that good hip rocking feeling that we want in the disc golf throw.

*

I don't like the motion he is demonstrating, his CoG is moving like a rainbow and peaking height at center, instead of doing the limbo or half pipe with CoG lower in the center.

Yeah, I agree on the Bradley Williams GIF, but I think that might have been part of azplaya25's point. Bradley's feet seem to remain planted, which makes it impossible for him to swing his non-plant leg like he would if he were demonstrating how to move-beneath-an-obstacle-laterally, which might be a more accessible motion for his student.

The half pipe is another good metaphor for this concept. I also like the motion analogy of kicking a ball, which I had never really connected until reading the below (despite spending way too much time playing the Beautiful Game as a youth).

I think the easiest athletic move of all time, besides running, is kicking a ball. Our bodies are optimized for something very similar, and people have no problem allowing their non-plant leg and hip to swing. It's when the non-plant leg is laterally behind the brace that people tend to get confused.

Another good one is SW22's Kick the Can or Ball:



The leg swing is the critical point here, I think. You don't try to "rock" your hips while you walk, but they do trade places up and down because your legs trade places swinging & planting. It's easy to do this while moving forward, but difficult to replicate when moving laterally (probably because you move laterally like this so infrequently). But, you can do it - it happens when you get in your car! Or when you have to shimmy beneath a big-ole-Log-molly tree that's fallen in the fairway.

 

[azplaya25]

I don't like the motion he is demonstrating, his CoG is moving like a rainbow and peaking height at center, instead of doing the limbo or half pipe with CoG lower in the center.

I agree, he's definitely not shifting like he's trying to move laterally underneath something. Basically just doing a lateral lunge.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, I agree on the Bradley Williams GIF, but I think that might have been part of azplaya25's point. Bradley's feet seem to remain planted, which makes it impossible for him to swing his non-plant leg like he would if he were demonstrating how to move-beneath-an-obstacle-laterally, which might be a more accessible motion for his student.

I agree, he's definitely not shifting like he's trying to move laterally underneath something. Basically just doing a lateral lunge.

Lol, yeah, I didn't thoroughly read the last part.

 

[Waddball]

He crushed the crap out of the can.

[/URL]

I'm not great at seeing the subleties of these things; does the final hip rock (the "catch" of momentum) occur exactly when the can is crushed (heel down), or slightly after?

 

[RowingBoats]

I'm not great at seeing the subleties of these things; does the final hip rock (the "catch" of momentum) occur exactly when the can is crushed (heel down), or slightly after?

I wouldn't try to think about it like this. You are not going to time this sequence with conscious control. Just banish the idea of this being a series of poses. Having familiarity with some of the poses that manifest in the swing is fine, but that isn't the focus.

Get that reciprocating dingle arm in your head, then play with your hips making that lower arm into a bat, hammer, whatever concept works. You should be able to figure out how to make it move so fast that you have a hard time bracing against it. Don't try to add anything with your arm muscles, at all, until you really, really feel this.

edit: I do get what you are asking but just don't think its the right question. If I were attempting to more directly answer your question I would say something like...imagine there is a string from your lead heel to your lead hand. Crushing the can would pull your hand.

 

[seedlings]

What is the sensation (or a drill) for extending the lead leg, straight knee, at the hit? I seem to keep it bent slightly and maybe have too-soft feeling. I might have my upper body too forward.

 

[Waddball]

I wouldn't try to think about it like this. You are not going to time this sequence with conscious control. Just banish the idea of this being a series of poses.

Thanks for the frank response. I do struggle with the "yoga pose" mentality (I'm old and stiff, so...I mean, it's some ugly yoga going on).

My intent though was to get at the sequence. SW22 and others reinforce the idea that the swing is way later than most casuals think it is. I've worked on that so much that I suspect I'm now too late. I'm trying to force my hand to lag behind my left leg (trying to emulate the, er, poses in the kinetic sequence thread). It doesn't feel like this Emerson Keith gif looks. (Also, EK's disc hand is up and folded in a bit, like Wysocki's, I assume to get some gravity assist with the lag; I would fail spectacularly trying something like that).

As to the dingle arm, I completely believe you. I've had my best throws using it. But also my worst. Some of the advice here (the one-piece takeaway, work around the disc concept) points to a non-dingle arm (keep it away and at the right height, which requires some structure/stiffness in the arm). I've had far fewer problems with release height and accuracy using that work-around-the-disc concept. But I also don't feel the natural lag and the pronounced whip effect. I've had so many worm burners and grip hooks using the dingle arm that I lose confidence.

Anyway, thanks. Great stuff to work through. You can probably tell I suffer from analysis paralysis, and these awesome threads have a tendency to give me (mental) grip lock.

 

[RowingBoats]

What is the sensation (or a drill) for extending the lead leg, straight knee, at the hit? I seem to keep it bent slightly and maybe have too-soft feeling. I might have my upper body too forward.

Have you ever rode a skateboard or snowboard and pumped a slight declining hill to speed up? I think the feel is similar for sure.

 

[Sard0nyx]

He crushed the crap out of the can.

This might be a little off topic, but everyone says that Emerson he great looking form. And I know he crushed the crap out of that drive. How the heck does he aim though? I don't see the wide-narrow-wide in his swing. It just looks like rotating his upper body after shifting his weight forward and releasing his hips. I know he's not rounding by collapsing his upper arm, but in a sense he's just swinging the disc around his body. (Like the bat analogy up above).

I also will add that his form looks very similar to Calvin Heimburg.

 

[seedlings]

Have you ever rode a skateboard or snowboard and pumped a slight declining hill to speed up? I think the feel is similar for sure.

Not successfully, but I get what you're saying.

 

[RowingBoats]

Thanks for the frank response. I do struggle with the "yoga pose" mentality (I'm old and stiff, so...I mean, it's some ugly yoga going on).

My intent though was to get at the sequence. SW22 and others reinforce the idea that the swing is way later than most casuals think it is. I've worked on that so much that I suspect I'm now too late. I'm trying to force my hand to lag behind my left leg (trying to emulate the, er, poses in the kinetic sequence thread). It doesn't feel like this Emerson Keith gif looks. (Also, EK's disc hand is up and folded in a bit, like Wysocki's, I assume to get some gravity assist with the lag; I would fail spectacularly trying something like that).

As to the dingle arm, I completely believe you. I've had my best throws using it. But also my worst. Some of the advice here (the one-piece takeaway, work around the disc concept) points to a non-dingle arm (keep it away and at the right height, which requires some structure/stiffness in the arm). I've had far fewer problems with release height and accuracy using that work-around-the-disc concept. But I also don't feel the natural lag and the pronounced whip effect. I've had so many worm burners and grip hooks using the dingle arm that I lose confidence.

Anyway, thanks. Great stuff to work through. You can probably tell I suffer from analysis paralysis, and these awesome threads have a tendency to give me (mental) grip lock.

I get ya haha, for real. The dingle arm isn't just willy nilly whipping either, but the concept is what you want to center the thinking around in my personal opinion. You still have to send that arm with purpose, but if you play with it like it is just a limp noodle, you will probably be able to figure out how to cause the lag, and then you will start playing with your posture to do the main control of the swing plane.

If you just play with it, and maybe think about sending your hand out in a straight line toward the intended line of the shot, you'll just...realize things. You'll notice that if you open up too early, your hand is way right, so you'll close your shoulders.

Try just standing there and making your lead arm do a figure 8 type shape. Just do that a while, then, start trying to...catch your arm when its falling in the backswing, sending it forward. There is a very natural way to feel that timing that is completely organic and not consciously manipulated.

 

[sidewinder22]

What is the sensation (or a drill) for extending the lead leg, straight knee, at the hit? I seem to keep it bent slightly and maybe have too-soft feeling. I might have my upper body too forward.

It's ok if it doesn't fully straighten. Knee can be bending while your muscles are extending or breaking your fall. It's about the change in acceleration or deceleration.

 

[RowingBoats]

This might be a little off topic, but everyone says that Emerson he great looking form. And I know he crushed the crap out of that drive. How the heck does he aim though? I don't see the wide-narrow-wide in his swing. It just looks like rotating his upper body after shifting his weight forward and releasing his hips. I know he's not rounding by collapsing his upper arm, but in a sense he's just swinging the disc around his body. (Like the bat analogy up above).

I also will add that his form looks very similar to Calvin Heimburg.

He aims with the posture of his body swinging his arm toward the line.

 

[azplaya25]

What is the sensation (or a drill) for extending the lead leg, straight knee, at the hit? I seem to keep it bent slightly and maybe have too-soft feeling. I might have my upper body too forward.

Something I've been playing around with is just feeling this Garret Gurthie starting a lawnmower move while balanced completely on my front leg. Feels completely different than how I've been bracing which makes me think it's probably correct lol.

https://youtu.be/3khC670tAB0

 

[RowingBoats]

Something I've been playing around with is just feeling this Garret Gurthie starting a lawnmower move while balanced completely on my front leg. Feels completely different than how I've been bracing which makes me think it's probably correct lol.

https://youtu.be/3khC670tAB0

I get the point of the lawnmower metaphor, but man...

If I could go back in time and remove ONE early concept that I planted in my mind, it would be this one lol. I just don't feel like it emphasizes the right aspects. There is too much arm tension starting a mower and it made me think so incredibly opposite about the backhand swing from what actually helped me.

Within the context of this thread, which is mostly about optimizing the hip movement, I get it, but it just introduces loads of ideas that seem to be EXACTLY the barriers most people run into with all this.

 

[BruisedOoze]

I get the point of the lawnmower metaphor, but man...

If I could go back in time and remove ONE early concept that I planted in my mind, it would be this one lol. I just don't feel like it emphasizes the right aspects. There is too much arm tension starting a mower and it made me think so incredibly opposite about the backhand swing from what actually helped me.

Within the context of this thread, which is mostly about optimizing the hip movement, I get it, but it just introduces loads of ideas that seem to be EXACTLY the barriers most people run into with all this.

Yeah, same here. It makes sense with the gif of a kid starting a mower, but one thing that became clear I've been strong-arming mowers all these years.

 

[azplaya25]

I get ya haha, for real. The dingle arm isn't just willy nilly whipping either, but the concept is what you want to center the thinking around in my personal opinion. You still have to send that arm with purpose, but if you play with it like it is just a limp noodle, you will probably be able to figure out how to cause the lag, and then you will start playing with your posture to do the main control of the swing plane.

If you just play with it, and maybe think about sending your hand out in a straight line toward the intended line of the shot, you'll just...realize things. You'll notice that if you open up too early, your hand is way right, so you'll close your shoulders.

Try just standing there and making your lead arm do a figure 8 type shape. Just do that a while, then, start trying to...catch your arm when its falling in the backswing, sending it forward. There is a very natural way to feel that timing that is completely organic and not consciously manipulated.

Great post man. That little figure 8 move takes a while to get a feel for. It comes and goes for me, but I'm getting more consistent with it. When I get it right it's like omg disc golf is so EZ why haven't I been doing this all along? Then I'll loose the feel for it and for about 2 weeks I'm just lost lol.

One player I like to watch is Josh Anthon. His entire swing, from putt to distance bombs, is built around that little "figure 8".

Putt



Upshot



Smash

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, same here. It makes sense with the gif of a kid starting a mower, but one thing that became clear I've been strong-arming mowers all these years.

Lol, I'm amazed by how so many people strong arm a hammer.