So many divisions!!!!!!!!W

[Thumber]

I'm just sick of PRO fields that have Masters fields as large as the Open field. That was really the point of this.

Perhaps the best answer is to move the masters age up to 50?

This is becoming an issue in Ontario as well. From what I have seen it is more of an interpersonal issue than anything else. Some of the Open players seem to piss off others so the others just choose to play masters to avoid those open players who aren't yet 40

Its a weird dynamic at play. Maybe a similar issue in your area Chris?

 

[allinpflop]

Don't worry Chris if I run an event I'll use my new course in North Strabane. I won't have anyone from pfds telling me what to do.

 

[allinpflop]

Did you really claim 1000% payout?
I would really like to see the books on that.

 

[chris deitzel]

I'll have to pull up the TD report. But it was huge last year at the PFDO. 1st place in every mens Am division won a basket of some sort.

 

[chris deitzel]

I wonder what I will do in 3 years when I am a Master? My thoughts now are if I am not good enough to compete in Open at that time, that I will move back down to Advanced.

 

[allinpflop]

Again I would be very skeptical of 1000% payout. And as far as payouts and the way tourneys are run I stand by what said earlier....every other region I have played in does a better job than Pittsburgh.

 

[chris deitzel]

I've played 450 tournaments now. I've played a lot worse. I will admit that AM payout has been less than desirable for a few years there.

But I've definitely played a heck of a lot worse.

Then again, there is a reason that we wanted to host the PRO worlds and not the AM worlds.

 

[allinpflop]

And what are those reasons?

 

[chris deitzel]

TD's that started the 2nd round before people finished their first round.

TD's that did not provide enough food for their free lunch

TD's that have messed up scores and paid out the wrong people.

TD's that took money out of entries without telling anyone.

TD's that paid less than their advertised amount.

TD's that took players packs values out of the pro entry fee.

etc etc etc.

 

[allinpflop]

I don't understand...these are reasons to host pro worlds vs am worlds?

 

[1978]

Pro should be only paying division. If you don't desire to turn pro, don't turn pro. You can stay amateur and play for trophy's/points/entry to bigger tournaments as long as you'd like to. I'm also ok with the am entry's to help fund the pro purse slightly. Lower am entries to much lower levels, don't use entry as players pack, if you get items donated, use it, otherwise no player packs. Use entry fees to buy trophies for the am divisions (make them cool and people will dig them) extra money goes into the pro pools with a cut going to the club running the tournament.

edit: i don't understand how no merch payouts would hurt businesses? that seems counter intuitive to me. Doesn't the vendor provide a discout rate to the club for those payouts, therefore making less money on that disc sale than if i go up and buy it myself after the round?

Highlighted part, WTF, I have no words to describe my feelings on this.

(your edit) It is so simple.

Current (am payout):
$50 entry 20 players = $1000. 80% payout; thats $200 for the club or TD. Players do 3 things with the payout.
1. Purchase exactly what the payout amount is.
2. Buy some things (or nothing) and donate the rest
3. Buy too much and pay the rest in cash.

SO of the $800 paid out: 50% comes back in the wholesale/retail conversion. ( what the seller purchased the disc for vs what you paid in merch for it) AND NO when you have funny money... you charge MORE for discs, because we care less about it.

So: $200 off top, $400 from HS->RT + donations and over spending + retail sales for those who didn't cash. Total: $600 +

Future Prize only:
You won't pay $50 for a tourny with no pay out. So... maybe it is $25. $25 * 20 = $500. Trophies cost $200. You are left with $300. Almost NO ONE purchases discs. They don't take that $25 that was saved and spend $25. It is a false arguement. It doesnt happen. People just save that $25.

Pros:
100% payout + required added cash. = event has to get sponsors to donate $ to satisfy added cash. No one cares about DG professionals. What they care about is #'s and the #'s are with the Am's. A 600 person BG am's means more to a local business than a 35 Pro, whatever.

Until Pro's get together and increase their image and get REAL sponsors to donate $$ they hurt the growth of the sport.

 

[chris deitzel]

no those were things other TD's did that sucked.

The reason to host Pro Worlds in Pittsburgh? Because it has been our goal since I started playing in 94, and was the goal of those players in the area that came before me since the late 80's.

And because J Gary is ready to host the biggest event of his life with what is shaping up to be the largest payout in Worlds history.

 

[allinpflop]

I think that just shows the disconnect......perhaps we need an organization that will focus on Ams not just the very very few "pros" we have in Pittsburgh.

 

[chris deitzel]

And the official 2012 TD report for the PFDO is:

250% payout to all Amateur Fields.

There was no deduction in entry fees from the players pack which was a shirt, disc and bottle. So if you paid $35 to play, $35 was in the pot for payout - PDGA fees.

That's a pretty damn impressive AM payout if you ask me. Pay $35, get a players pack, and your entry fee put $85 into the overall payout pot.

 

[chris deitzel]

Go for it man.

I mean we only run a doubles league on Tuesday, a singles league on Wednesday, another doubles league on Thursday, another singles league on Friday and then the monthly events on the weekend.

All of which are attended by more ams than pros.

I think you are jaded about what the PFDS does. Come to a meeting anytime. Got any questions, call any of us up.

 

[vslaugh]

And Allinflipflop, if you are going to run a PDGA event at a PFDS course, Moraine, Schenley, Deer Lakes, Knob Hill, Linbrook, the event will have to be run through the PFDS. None of these courses would allow you to do so without using the PFDS.

Not that it matters to me, but I thought it came up in the past that anyone could host a tournament on (at least some of) these courses as long as you get a permit from the proper authority? Or does the PFDS have a special exclusivity agreement?

 

[AndyJB]

That sucks for y'all but it seems like a bit of a local issue. The global issue at hand is pretty simple.

No payouts for Ams=trophy only, small but still decent players packs
Payouts for Ams=higher entry fees, slightly better players packs, local club or vendor providing merch

I guess it comes down to which side you fall on. I don't care either way, but I lean more forwards trophy-only. As I alluded to earlier, my rating is solidly Rec for various reasons, so I'm nearly always playing for trophies only, which I don't mind because I stol get a disc in my pack. I would, however, much prefer to pay 15-25 dollars for a trophy only Amateur event for all divisions and just vetting a disc or shirt and some samples and coupons, then paying 30-50 bucks for a two disc players pack, the possibility of a trophy and knowing the rest of my fee (less expenses for the TD) goes to a pro purse or funny money foe Int and Advanced to have their top 50 percent get even more plastic.

Trophy only ia good for the sport AS LONG AS entry fees are lowered and some memento is still provided, like a shirt or disc....that's how other casual sports do it. Every race Ive ran, softball tourney Ive played or 3-on-3 basketball tourney Ive played runs it like that.

 

[chris deitzel]

Vince you are right.

You can. Just need the permit and proper insurance.....

And believe me, we would love it if other people wanted to run some events!!!!!

 

[allinpflop]

Again why pro vs am worlds?

 

[Organicvoodoo]

Why not just payout top 5 Amatuer and Pro.

All those other divisions are lame 2 me.