[Innova] For the love of the Bird! ..Teebird that is!

[Moose33]

Fair enough haha I'm new to this world of Innova, so I didn't know if it would be an answer like "Oh, that era of 150 class are notoriously straight or flippy" or whatever.

But update, I took them out and one of them is quite flippy, but not turn-and-burn flippy, and the other is very straight, surprisingly overstable for a 150 class. I'll definitely work them more, but so far it's good results.

I was about to say, if they are worn in or have a pop top they could be flippy, but a lot of the ones in that weight class are laser beams. I have some champ and glow ones from 2010-14 and they were pretty straight with a biting finish.

 

[Sydex]

As of last count, owning more than 200 Teebirds now (I really like Teebirds), domey Teebirds are flippy as a general rule.

Oddly enough, domey Teebird3s are beefy.

 

[GripEnemy]

Honest question:

Does everyone truly think there's much of a difference between TBs and T3s? Or any "3" and the original? My personal opinion is they're only different because they aren't from the same run like every single disc on the market.

In my bag the stability of my 3 Teebrids (one is a "3") is directly related to how beat they are.

 

[twistedraven]

The only difference between the 3 and Original is that the 3s should be on average flatter than non 3s. This has been my experience as well. There is no difference in rim width or torque resistance. I have gone through more overstable runs of Teebirds and Teebirds3, and more straight runs of Teebirds and Teebird3s. My personal favorite are the Barela Color Glow Teebird3s. They seem to start out slightly straighter, and I love the gummy plastic.

 

[isamoor]

I much prefer forehanding Teebird3s. I don't like bagging a pile of discs, so now I'm trained to hit backhand lines with the Teebird3. I could adjust to the dome of a regular teebird easy enough, but it would likely take a month or so to hit my angles as consistently.

I'd suggest picking one and sticking with it. But that's true of most disc slots.

Those AB Color Glow Teebird3s do feel super nice and go super far. I find their dome to be right between a common Teebird and a common Teebird3.

 

[GripEnemy]

I much prefer forehanding Teebird3s. I don't like bagging a pile of discs, so now I'm trained to hit backhand lines with the Teebird3. I could adjust to the dome of a regular teebird easy enough, but it would likely take a month or so to hit my angles as consistently.

I'd suggest picking one and sticking with it. But that's true of most disc slots.

Those AB Color Glow Teebird3s do feel super nice and go super far. I find their dome to be right between a common Teebird and a common Teebird3.

My only rebuttal here is I've owned and handled flat TBs as well as domey T3s (and Roc3s and Leo3s...don't mess with other Innova molds that come in "3" variants).

 

[isamoor]

My only rebuttal here is I've owned and handled flat TBs as well as domey T3s (and Roc3s and Leo3s...don't mess with other Innova molds that come in "3" variants).

Very fair. It's safe to say that most Teebird3s are flatter than most Teebirds. But there are exceptions that go both ways. Although I've never had a regular Teebird as flat as the flattest Teebird3s. (But I've gotten some Teebird3s with silly amounts of dome.)

I definitely suggest buying in-person or on OTB (where they post the dome). Or if you do F2, if they have a stock you like re-order 10x right away. (I did this with champion Teebird3s when the Ricky 2x were the base last year and I'm set for quite a while on stable Teebird3s.)

 

[GripEnemy]

I have far too many discs, just trying to stimulate conversation

 

[Lurp Nuts]

The Teebird3, and all of the 3 series, are different molds. End of conversation. :\ :|

 

[isamoor]

The Teebird3, and all of the 3 series, are different molds. End of conversation. :\ :|

Eh. I agree they're different molds. But noobs may not realize the effect of climate/humidity/plastic blend/etc can sometimes overcome the difference in the mold pieces themselves. I definitely didn't appreciate that a few years ago. Always good to pass on the knowledge. (And OMG, the number of times I have to explain flashing to noobs on the interwebs and IRL. But it's so important and seldom discussed on mediums like YouTube.)

 

[mgamache8]

The Teebird3, and all of the 3 series, are different molds. End of conversation. :\ :|

Technically yes, realistically no. Teebirds (and rocs) used to be flat. Molded in new plastic blends, they became very domey. The teebird3 just restores the mold back to being flat, as intended.

 

[mgamache8]

As of last count, owning more than 200 Teebirds now (I really like Teebirds), domey Teebirds are flippy as a general rule.

Oddly enough, domey Teebird3s are beefy.

Recent runs of domey star teebirds are beef cakes.

 

[kevdiv48]

Technically yes, realistically no. Teebirds (and rocs) used to be flat. Molded in new plastic blends, they became very domey. The teebird3 just restores the mold back to being flat, as intended.

What do you mean by this? transition from DX/ Pro to Star / Champion? Or different blends of premium plastic over the years?

 

[twistedraven]

A lot of the molds that have 3 variations were originally only produced in DX because of how old they are. From my experience, Star tends to mold up pretty domey. This could be Innova's answer to make them flatter overall as how they were originally molded up in DX.

 

[wims]

The story of Innova's 3 molds as told by wims (fan fiction).

Innova buys a few new injection molding machines to keep up with the increased demand. The new machines have a different interface with the molds, so molds would have to be rebuilt. The new mold maker is using a different way of running coolant through the mold. This cause the discs to cool more consistent, and it also causes discs to mold up flatter.

When Innova discovered that their new Leopard / Roc / Teebird mold created flatter discs they immediately saw the marketing potential. Why not sell these discs as "Teebird 3", extra flat Teebirds?

When you look at the tooling on the bottom of the flight plate you will see that all lettering except for '3' is sticking out of the disc. It's sticking out of the disc because the text was engraved on the mold when the mold was produced. The fact that the number '3' is not sticking out, but rather sink in is evidence that the '3' number was added at a later time. In fact, '3' is not a part of the mold itself, it's stamped on the disc after the disc was produced. This is what is causing it to be indented rather than sticking out. If Innova had intended that these molds were '3' series molds when they were produced then the '3' would be raised as well, like the rest of the text on the disc

TLDR; Innova ordered new molds, discs produced by these molds molded up flatter than discs produced with the old molds. Innova took advantage and sold and marketed them as new discs.

 

[kevdiv48]

The story of Innova's 3 molds as told by wims (fan fiction).

Innova buys a few new injection molding machines to keep up with the increased demand. The new machines have a different interface with the molds, so molds would have to be rebuilt. The new mold maker is using a different way of running coolant through the mold. This cause the discs to cool more consistent, and it also causes discs to mold up flatter.

When Innova discovered that their new Leopard / Roc / Teebird mold created flatter discs they immediately saw the marketing potential. Why not sell these discs as "Teebird 3", extra flat Teebirds?

When you look at the tooling on the bottom of the flight plate you will see that all lettering except for '3' is sticking out of the disc. It's sticking out of the disc because the text was engraved on the mold when the mold was produced. The fact that the number '3' is not sticking out, but rather sink in is evidence that the '3' number was added at a later time. In fact, '3' is not a part of the mold itself, it's stamped on the disc after the disc was produced. This is what is causing it to be indented rather than sticking out. If Innova had intended that these molds were '3' series molds when they were produced then the '3' would be raised as well, like the rest of the text on the disc

TLDR; Innova ordered new molds, discs produced by these molds molded up flatter than discs produced with the old molds. Innova took advantage and sold and marketed them as new discs.

In the case of the Rancho Roc vs Roc3 this is not true. Tooling on the underside of Ranchos is closer to the center of the disc versus Roc3's are closer to rim so the two have a different core pience. Easiest way to tell the difference between Champ Rancho Roc's and Champ Roc3's.

 

[wims]

In the case of the Rancho Roc vs Roc3 this is not true. Tooling on the underside of Ranchos is closer to the center of the disc versus Roc3's are closer to rim so the two have a different core pience. Easiest way to tell the difference between Champ Rancho Roc's and Champ Roc3's.

My claim is that all 3 discs have different mold pieces. They have been specifically made for their new injection machines and the cooling runs differently through them

 

[ian.w]

I have a bunch of champ and Star teebirds that are flat, and pre date any of the 3 naming convention. It wasn't the transition to premium plastics that made molds more domey, because lots of early champ and star stuff was flat back then. For some reason teebirds started to get domey, but I don't know why.
Also, I'm convinced that the leopard and leopard3 are identical. I suspect that the teebird and tb3 are identical as well. And please don't quote speed ratings and PDGA measurements to me, they don't mean anything.
Lots of people talk about new molds and new mold parts etc., but I think it's fair to say that innova isn't using just one mold per disc model, and likely haven't done that in decades. They have many many molds of each disc, and sometimes they wear out, and sometimes discs come out differently.

 

[Sydex]

Recent runs of domey star teebirds are beef cakes.

Nice. I admit I haven't bought new Star since the super stiff run of Star Plastic era. And any new teebirds since KJ had the shimmer star run which would have been 2019.

 

[@CD-]

The story of Innova's 3 molds as told by wims (fan fiction).
...
When Innova discovered that their new Leopard / Roc / Teebird mold created flatter discs they immediately saw the marketing potential. Why not sell these discs as "Teebird 3", extra flat Teebirds?

When you look at the tooling on the bottom of the flight plate you will see that all lettering except for '3' is sticking out of the disc. It's sticking out of the disc because the text was engraved on the mold when the mold was produced. The fact that the number '3' is not sticking out, but rather sink in is evidence that the '3' number was added at a later time. In fact, '3' is not a part of the mold itself, it's stamped on the disc after the disc was produced. This is what is causing it to be indented rather than sticking out. If Innova had intended that these molds were '3' series molds when they were produced then the '3' would be raised as well, like the rest of the text on the disc

TLDR; Innova ordered new molds, discs produced by these molds molded up flatter than discs produced with the old molds. Innova took advantage and sold and marketed them as new discs.

I do not think anything was 'discovered' when Innova had new mold pieces machined, likely they were designed to better shape premium plastic (Champion and Star) to conform to their expected cooling/shrink rates.

The only mold I've seen any kind of 3 tooling added to is the Leopard3 and it looks like the '3' was added after the fact inline with the other Innova tooling - it has a different font size (much like when they added the Innova website to existing molds). This tooling is embossed out of the discs produced and part of the mold (debossed into the mold piece). Looking at original Leopards they have pretty much identical tooling without that 3 added.

All the other 3 series have their own tooling different from the original with the embossed lettering out nearer to the rim. This at least means the 'core' piece of the mold (of the 3 known Innova mold pieces - top, rim, & core) is different between the original and 3 series. There may be additional cooling lines in the 3 series core but also have different top pieces which all combines to produce flatter versions more often.

I do find the Teebird (dome) and Teebird3 (flat) have enough of a profile and flight difference (especially in windy conditions) that I treat them differently when throwing. Teebirds can have more loft/glide and I can get more distance and more fade. Teebird3s are better for managing landing in target areas with the more 'point and shoot' line drive shots with lower glide.