Should top of the basket count?

[justin]

they made wedgies good because there could theoretically be doubt over whether it wedged from the inside or the outside on blind holes. imo the basket makers are at fault on wedgies- one more piece of metal and 3-4 more welds and they become a non-issue. i once had jeff keirn wedge 2 putts in one round on me in a pdga event- boy was i pissed.

Maybe my prejudice against wedges is because I'm a lob putter which means I'll never get wedged in there but I could potentially land on top.

I've landed on top once since I learned how to putt and I've only wedged once but that was with a 10 Meter Brick so that's pretty easy to have happen. Of course that helped me into a playoff with a friend. I nded up winning after another 3 holes but I still feel like it was a cheap win.

 

[Cgkdisc]

How come John Goodman keeps getting brought up?

Brian Cummings and Dan Pastore - the early years of DG in Hammond?

 

[DiscJunkie]

I know what the rules say and I follow them to the extent of my knowledge and understanding.
But...I do have an opinion which I will express as a citizen of a free country that values free speech as an opportunity for everyone to be heard - right, wrong or indifferent.
I might add that I respect others' opinions even when I feel strongly that those opinions are wrong.
My personal opinion is...
The DROT rule is the stupidest rule in disc golf.

 

[howardb]

Nope!!! gotta cha ching it baby!!

 

[mattdabbs]

I was talking about this scenario...in or out? I just recreated the scenario in my garage on my disc catcher and have seen this on the course. Anyone else ever had this happen in a round?

 

[biscoe]

in and yes i have seen it happen in a round.

 

[mashnut]

My gf somehow manages to get her soft rhynos to stick like that way more often than would seem possible. She's only been playing 2 years, and I've seen her do that at least a dozen times. Biscoe's right, it's in because it's supported by the basket, same reason a wedgie counts.

 

[trifocal]

It seems to me that most, if not all, Professional Sports have standardized goal size. Standardizing Basket construction to eliminate wedgies and hanging discs isn't really out of the realm of 21st century engineering.

 

[trifocal]

If you go back and read the original post this is about why does landing on top not count if other BS shots like being wedged in the basket do. Landing on the green is certainly not the same thing. Perhaps landing your ball on the top the pin/flag would come close as a comparison.

I just can't get over wedges counting and the top not.

The rule in ball golf is a ball lodged in the flag is placed on the lip of the cup.

 

[ejvogie]

like if you would shake the tree and it falls on top

If the disc is at rest in the tree, and you shake said tree to drop said disc into the basket, you've artificially changed your lie, and are in violation of the rules. I'm too lazy to look up which one.

 

[Clark]

I think that poll was a bit biased.

"George Bush: Great president, or the Greatest?"

"I'll just put you down for Great."

 

[Donovan]

What about the putt that hits the outside of the basket and hangs on the outside supported by two of the vertical metal wires? I have seen this happen just once. Anyone else ever seen that? None of the disc is in the basket and yet it is supported by it. It never actually went in but sounds like it meets the criteria for counting as "in".

IN!!

Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains or within one of the entrapment sections. This includes a disc wedged into or hanging from the lower entrapment section but excludes a disc resting on top of, or hanging outside of, the upper entrapment section. The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed.

OK, The problem I have with this rule is these words in the first sentence, "within one of the entrapment sections."

I really don't see that the disc hanging outside the basket on the basket is within the entrapment sections, unless it is assuming the disc lip is wide enough to be protruding over the slight basket edge enough to be considered within. Most baskets don't have that thin of metal to allow that.

I still think this is no basket. :\

 

[mashnut]

You highlighted the wrong sentence there, it specifically says that wedged or hanging discs on the lower entrapment section are good. It was easier to make the rule that the basket or chains supporting the disc is good, but the top is not than to make a set of specific rules about how the disc has to come to rest on or in the basket and leave more open to interpretation during play.

 

[Donovan]

You highlighted the wrong sentence there, it specifically says that wedged or hanging discs on the lower entrapment section are good. It was easier to make the rule that the basket or chains supporting the disc is good, but the top is not than to make a set of specific rules about how the disc has to come to rest on or in the basket and leave more open to interpretation during play.

I am not sure why the highlighting is screwing up all of a sudden, but the first sentence says within and the second says hanging on, so shouldn't it be hanging on AND within to count as holed out?

 

[mashnut]

You're right, it's poorly worded, but that's sorta what you expect with the PDGA rules in general...

It does say though, "this includes" which says to me that sentence is clarifying the one before, not adding different conditions. The sentence you highlighted should read "supported by the chains or lower entrapment section" and it would be a little more internally consistent.

 

[Innovadude]

There are also some baskets where the holes in the top are big enough for a disc to fall through if it wedges just right. I don't think Steady Ed would have approved...

I do think he decided that the top does not count, and he did invent the general target and game. In no way should it count then.

 

[Donovan]

You're right, it's poorly worded, but that's sorta what you expect with the PDGA rules in general...

It does say though, "this includes" which says to me that sentence is clarifying the one before, not adding different conditions. The sentence you highlighted should read "supported by the chains or lower entrapment section" and it would be a little more internally consistent.

BTW, THANKS AS ALWAYS for the TR STATS! YOU ROCK BRO!

"this includes" is a good point, but does not change the "within" comment. In that I agree with you. It is clarifying, but not adding a condition. That says to me within is still a vital condition. Besides, to further state the "within" point of the rule, they restate it once again in the last snetence.

"The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed."

The more you make me read this over and over, the further I am getting from thinking this counts as holed out.

 

[Donovan]

As far as the disc hanging outside of the basket...

Does anyone know of this happening in a major PDGA sactioned event? If so, what was the ruling?

 

[craftsman]

I do think he decided that the top does not count, and he did invent the general target and game. In no way should it count then.

Oh snap- pulling the steady eddy card

 

[DiscJunkie]

I do think he decided that the top does not count, and he did invent the general target and game. In no way should it count then.

Let's talk about evolution, here. The game needs to evolve to make it better.
Take basketball, we're not still shooting to peach baskets, are we?
Baseball, football, even soccer have changed.
Just because some guy invented a disc-catching device doesn't mean that the rules or the device cannot change.