How do people really feel about mandatories? Seems to be a lot of camps on them. A lot of people hate them, period. A lot think that nobody really observes them. So, let's talk about mandos.
(poll coming)
(poll coming)
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Mando Consensus
- Thread starter BrotherDave
- Start date
Also, vote twice on the poll, once for your feeling about them being good or not and once on whether or not you think people pay attention to them.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I wish. I've run into a lot of "mandos can't/shouldn't be used to shape a hole/for design" lately and I wanted to see what a good sample of people really think about mandos in terms of observance and usage.
guess we have good mandos up here b/c without them some holes would be well... lame as hell and others its what makes them so great to hit the line.
CreemCheese
Double Eagle Member
In general they are a good idea, as long as they are thought out.
Something easily thrown over does not make a good mando. Such as the 15 ft pole that marked where a right dogleg started, there were a lot of judgement calls on that.
I've also played in tournaments that had a mando setup that was completely different than my normal line. Not necessarily bad, as it did add challenge, but made me rethink a hole that I had played dozens of times.
Something easily thrown over does not make a good mando. Such as the 15 ft pole that marked where a right dogleg started, there were a lot of judgement calls on that.
I've also played in tournaments that had a mando setup that was completely different than my normal line. Not necessarily bad, as it did add challenge, but made me rethink a hole that I had played dozens of times.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Around here, there are several mandos that, apparently, are only there to keep pros from throwing giant spike hyzers.
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I assume you mean casual players...? I think in tournament play 99.8% of players pay attention to them.
Romans 5-8
Eagle Member
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You can't vote twice can you?
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
Avoid them unless it's absolutely a safety concern. If you can do without them then the course will be much better.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
I understand the need for Mandos, but they need to be relatively early in the throw, or at least in position at a landing spot where the second throw will be strongly influenced by them and also early. I hate mandos that are meant to influence the end of the throw.
For example, and both at Am Worlds this year, Oakwood Holes 4/18. There is a large oak tree at the bottom of the fairway of Hole 4, approximately 70% of the way to the hole. The fairway coming back on 18 runs parallel, and those trying to go to the right of the tree will cross over the other's fairway. In normal play I understand the mando because rec players likely will not be paying attention. However, during Am Worlds, regardless of the mando, groups on both holes remained aware of the other hole because many people were missing the mando anyway. Groups waited for the others to clear, essentially reducing the effectiveness and need for the mando. Yes, sour grapes, I missed the mando on 4 and landed in a spot that would have been an easy par. Instead, I settled for a five. I came within five feet of missing it again on 18. If I had been permitted to play to the right of the tree, it would have again been an easy par. Instead, by having to come back around the tree, I wasted a throw and struggled to save bogey.
The other mando was on Hole 9(?) at CP Adams. A fairly wide open 500 foot hole with a few mature trees. WAY to the right is Hole 10(?)'s fairway. You would have to have a 400-450 foot drive that is off target by almost 150 to 200 feet to the right to even put that fairway in danger. However, it seemed the only way to mark a mando was to make it a mature tree that was significantly in Hole 9's fairway. Yes, again sour grapes, but I crushed a drive easily 415 feet and where I landed would have been a long 2, almost guaranteed 3. I missed that mando, 400 feet from the tee, by at most two feet to the right. While I did not expect or anticipate my Trespass to flip up and turn at all, it was still overall a great shot. Now I am settling for a double bogey instead of a chance at a birdie. There was no need for this mando because to go out far enough right to endanger the next hole just would have been plain stupid. There was no advantage of slicing that far out right because you would be slicing away from the basket. If anything, it was forcing you to go further left, which has Hole 14(?)'s fairway coming back parallel and a lot closer than Hole 10.
Missing a legitimate mando is one thing, I blame myself for that, but missing a stupid and unnecessary mando makes me mad at the course. Unfortunately I never recovered at Oakwood, completely souring my day. I shot 10 over my average on that course and easily dropped 70 positions in the standings. Missing the mando on 4 and almost missing it on 18 directly added three throws to my score; the remaining seven came from being frustrated. If not for an Am Worlds Ace on Hole 12 at CP Adams, I would have completely given up trying at the tournament after that first round at CP because I knew I would have to play another round there to finish out the tournament (I already disliked that course and having to play it twice versus playing Kaposia or The Valley twice already took some of the enjoyment away from the Am Worlds experience).
For example, and both at Am Worlds this year, Oakwood Holes 4/18. There is a large oak tree at the bottom of the fairway of Hole 4, approximately 70% of the way to the hole. The fairway coming back on 18 runs parallel, and those trying to go to the right of the tree will cross over the other's fairway. In normal play I understand the mando because rec players likely will not be paying attention. However, during Am Worlds, regardless of the mando, groups on both holes remained aware of the other hole because many people were missing the mando anyway. Groups waited for the others to clear, essentially reducing the effectiveness and need for the mando. Yes, sour grapes, I missed the mando on 4 and landed in a spot that would have been an easy par. Instead, I settled for a five. I came within five feet of missing it again on 18. If I had been permitted to play to the right of the tree, it would have again been an easy par. Instead, by having to come back around the tree, I wasted a throw and struggled to save bogey.
The other mando was on Hole 9(?) at CP Adams. A fairly wide open 500 foot hole with a few mature trees. WAY to the right is Hole 10(?)'s fairway. You would have to have a 400-450 foot drive that is off target by almost 150 to 200 feet to the right to even put that fairway in danger. However, it seemed the only way to mark a mando was to make it a mature tree that was significantly in Hole 9's fairway. Yes, again sour grapes, but I crushed a drive easily 415 feet and where I landed would have been a long 2, almost guaranteed 3. I missed that mando, 400 feet from the tee, by at most two feet to the right. While I did not expect or anticipate my Trespass to flip up and turn at all, it was still overall a great shot. Now I am settling for a double bogey instead of a chance at a birdie. There was no need for this mando because to go out far enough right to endanger the next hole just would have been plain stupid. There was no advantage of slicing that far out right because you would be slicing away from the basket. If anything, it was forcing you to go further left, which has Hole 14(?)'s fairway coming back parallel and a lot closer than Hole 10.
Missing a legitimate mando is one thing, I blame myself for that, but missing a stupid and unnecessary mando makes me mad at the course. Unfortunately I never recovered at Oakwood, completely souring my day. I shot 10 over my average on that course and easily dropped 70 positions in the standings. Missing the mando on 4 and almost missing it on 18 directly added three throws to my score; the remaining seven came from being frustrated. If not for an Am Worlds Ace on Hole 12 at CP Adams, I would have completely given up trying at the tournament after that first round at CP because I knew I would have to play another round there to finish out the tournament (I already disliked that course and having to play it twice versus playing Kaposia or The Valley twice already took some of the enjoyment away from the Am Worlds experience).
All arguments for permt Mandos are moot due to the majority of players who will ignore them completely
If its a tourney only mando thats a different discussion
If its a tourney only mando thats a different discussion
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
Which ones are you referring to?
I do not mind the ones at The Valley, Kaposia, Clearwater, Riverside, and Millstream.
I hate the ones at Oakwood and CP Adams.
I am indifferent to the ones at Hansen and the unofficial ones at Bryant.
Which ones am I missing, because I am sure I am missing a few, and I am also sure I have a strong opinion on them one way or another.
brp has a few
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I think Mandos should be avoided, except for reasons of safety.
Next, I think Mandos should be easily observable from the tee and as close to the tee as possible.
Third, over-use of Mandos is a design flaw/shortcut.
Most players at my home course obey them, if they know about them.
Next, I think Mandos should be easily observable from the tee and as close to the tee as possible.
Third, over-use of Mandos is a design flaw/shortcut.
Most players at my home course obey them, if they know about them.
Hole 18 on our lower course is set up to throw down an alley with trees on either side and the road beyond the trees to the right. It is very thick on the left and blind, and the best shot is try and go down the pipe, and hope for a good lane to drive again. The good landing spot is about 280, then the hole turns hard left. When doing some maintenance we found that if you throw through the trees and go out over the road, you can hyzer the disc in a good spot, as long as you don't hit a branch. I tried three times and hit branches and was OB.
During tournament play, one player figured out the boundaries of a legal teebox and was able to actually hyzer around all the trees and land deep towards the basket.
So, now that that egg has been cracked the question is how to fix it. Do we let players hyzer around the trees and take the tunnel out of the throw, which made this hole one of the best on the course, or do we make the tree line mandatory (to a certain distance) and eliminate what I suspect will become a very safe, popular option?
During tournament play, one player figured out the boundaries of a legal teebox and was able to actually hyzer around all the trees and land deep towards the basket.
So, now that that egg has been cracked the question is how to fix it. Do we let players hyzer around the trees and take the tunnel out of the throw, which made this hole one of the best on the course, or do we make the tree line mandatory (to a certain distance) and eliminate what I suspect will become a very safe, popular option?
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I'm indifferent to them as long as they're equally distributed to challenge lefties, righties and yes, even overhanded players. It seems like every time I play a course with mandos they're always brutally favoring left handed backhand. IMO that's not making a course better.
If the only purpose of a mando is to protect an area that absolutely can't have throws going near or in it (say a playground or a busy street), better to move the hole entirely. Why even give discs a chance to go where they shouldn't?
If the purpose is to add some element of challenge or to force play through a certain area (or away from a certain area), then the only good mandatory is the one that you have to try really hard to miss. It is one that 90% of the players (casual or tourney types) are going to make without even thinking about it, because missing the mando wouldn't give them a desirable result anyway. Basically, the only shots that miss the mando are horrendously poor or ill-advised throws.
If the purpose is to add some element of challenge or to force play through a certain area (or away from a certain area), then the only good mandatory is the one that you have to try really hard to miss. It is one that 90% of the players (casual or tourney types) are going to make without even thinking about it, because missing the mando wouldn't give them a desirable result anyway. Basically, the only shots that miss the mando are horrendously poor or ill-advised throws.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
i dislike them and feel they are something of a design crutch. that being said there are circumstances where they are called for. if you have to have them i am of the belief that they should be made as to be difficult to miss rather than farther down a hole to force shot shape. if they are well marked/well communicated (telling players how to deal with them rather than simply that they are there) i actually feel the vast majority of players abide by them.
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