brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Kevin Jones...
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2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread
- Thread starter Buchajs1
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Kevin Jones...
wolfmandragon
* Ace Member *
I said this on another thread but it's worth saying here as well. Kevin Jones would have to be crazy to leave Prodiscus and his mixed bag ...unless there was lots of money involved.
Right now he gets to throw the Destroyer, Comet and the jOKERI....no one company can replace all those discs.(Someone needs to tell him about the Envy and Volt though
)
Right now he gets to throw the Destroyer, Comet and the jOKERI....no one company can replace all those discs.(Someone needs to tell him about the Envy and Volt though
)
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From I understand is that they don't get that much of a cut of signature discs, which are most of what paul has, they get a bigger chunk of the tour series which is usually one mold per year. From the stock sig discs they are only getting a few cents per disc, from the tour series they get more. They are two different things. The tour series are like the sexton firebirds, the koling thunderbird, and I think the McPro Aviar was his tour series. The discs he has his sig on for winning worlds are a lot less
I said this on another thread but it's worth saying here as well. Kevin Jones would have to be crazy to leave Prodiscus and his mixed bag ...unless there was lots of money involved.
Right now he gets to throw the Destroyer, Comet and the jOKERI....no one company can replace all those discs.(Someone needs to tell him about the Envy and Volt though
I may be mistaken, but I believe when the guys from Prodiscus USA were on smashboxx they said that they were the ones to make that relationship with Kevin Jones and the ones that signed him. They are no longer the owners of prodiscus USA so I'm assuming he will go elsewhere. I bet almost any other company can pay him more than they are/were so why wouldn't he go, most of these top players don't care about a mixed bag or not they care about eating and paying for expenses on tour.
wolfmandragon
* Ace Member *
Ahhh, I had not heard that part of the story.
wolfmandragon
* Ace Member *
Well since this is the wild a$$ bullcrap thread, and the fact that MJ is refusing to give up the Comet, I say Paul McBeth is going to MVP. After all, he was complementing Matt Dollars Phase at Maple Hill.
....
No, I don't actually believe this....but it's fun.
....
No, I don't actually believe this....but it's fun.
He has the Champ Roc3, Champ Thunderbird and Star Destroyer as his Signature Discs.
Then he has the McPro Aviar, McPro Roc3 and Teebird3 as his Tour Series Discs, all of which have been released at some point during one season (multiple times even).
He has also had Novas and P2's at some point during his time with Innova.
Besides it would seem that if you sell 1,000 tour series discs and get $3 each vs. selling 40,000 signature discs at 25 cents a piece, which is better?
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lenfantsuave
Bogey Member
Regarding signature discs, it was my understanding that the players get a smaller cut of those because they get money for each one MADE as opposed to each one sold like they do with tour series discs.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2011
- Messages
- 1,180
Casey? Just about everything you wrote in those walls of comments were incorrect. If you are sure any of it is true please provide sources.
As for the Ultimate vs Disc Golf money thing.
It's profitability, not overall sales. A 10 million turnover company making a large portion of that through one mold of one disc, in mainly one colour and one weight range will be far more profitable than a 30 (possibly even 50 million dollar company making 50 different molds with 7 or 8 different plastic versions, and then multiplied by colours and weights. So much profit has to be tied up in stock to make that work. If you went on to Dragons Den (I think you guys call it SharkTank) with that business model as a small start up they'd laugh you out of the room.)
The second part of that is Discraft are going to be selling a large share of their Ultrastars at retail prices to teams/clubs etc which is far more profitable than wholesale at a percentage off normal wholesale to major chain stores, who also I imagine insist on some cashflow punishing deals - eg sale or return, concession basis etc.
Thirdly with less molds they are also less likely to have so many mold issues. Normally in plastics it's easier on the mold itself to blast through loads and loads of pieces than to chop and change between plastics etc and do smaller runs. Molds are very very expensive, they tend to like to get up to speed and keep churning where possible. If you bust one from poor maintenance and use, it's going to need you to sell a few thousands pieces just to start making money again. Especially if you are having to pay royalties out on each one sold. I don't believe there are royalties paid on Ultrastar discs?
Don't get hung up on how many discs are sold but how many need to be sold to make the same amount of profit. Long term I would personally be investing in the Disc Golf option though as the potential market growth is far far far greater.
IF these Disccraft rumours are true I imagine that's exactly what they are trying to do.
IMHO they would be better suited to employ a team of people to get their social media game on point though an area they are woefully behind in. Get camera teams out there following their guys and attempt to own Instagram/Youtube/Reddit (where's the Discraft version of Kona, I bet she sells a lot of plastic for Innova through her 24.5k followers and won't cost much at all to the company. Where is their daily presence on R/Discgolf Reddit a sub with 63k subscribers?) Are they at trade shows, are they pushing to get the brand in to big chain retail? I'm struggling to believe that the Name Paul McBeth means much to the Walmart buyer, what incentives could the saved money by not bringing him in be used for to get the discs in store instead?
Right now I'd like the profitability of Ultimate but the potential turnover in Disc Golf is far greater than Ultimate in the long term and when you get to certain levels of turnover the profitability margin can reduce substantially to still make you very very wealthy. At least that's what I keep hoping to myself as I buy more and more inventory....
And MJ, I'm loving the input I'm really looking forward to the moment Paul opens up on this thread
As for the Ultimate vs Disc Golf money thing.
It's profitability, not overall sales. A 10 million turnover company making a large portion of that through one mold of one disc, in mainly one colour and one weight range will be far more profitable than a 30 (possibly even 50 million dollar company making 50 different molds with 7 or 8 different plastic versions, and then multiplied by colours and weights. So much profit has to be tied up in stock to make that work. If you went on to Dragons Den (I think you guys call it SharkTank) with that business model as a small start up they'd laugh you out of the room.)
The second part of that is Discraft are going to be selling a large share of their Ultrastars at retail prices to teams/clubs etc which is far more profitable than wholesale at a percentage off normal wholesale to major chain stores, who also I imagine insist on some cashflow punishing deals - eg sale or return, concession basis etc.
Thirdly with less molds they are also less likely to have so many mold issues. Normally in plastics it's easier on the mold itself to blast through loads and loads of pieces than to chop and change between plastics etc and do smaller runs. Molds are very very expensive, they tend to like to get up to speed and keep churning where possible. If you bust one from poor maintenance and use, it's going to need you to sell a few thousands pieces just to start making money again. Especially if you are having to pay royalties out on each one sold. I don't believe there are royalties paid on Ultrastar discs?
Don't get hung up on how many discs are sold but how many need to be sold to make the same amount of profit. Long term I would personally be investing in the Disc Golf option though as the potential market growth is far far far greater.
IF these Disccraft rumours are true I imagine that's exactly what they are trying to do.
IMHO they would be better suited to employ a team of people to get their social media game on point though an area they are woefully behind in. Get camera teams out there following their guys and attempt to own Instagram/Youtube/Reddit (where's the Discraft version of Kona, I bet she sells a lot of plastic for Innova through her 24.5k followers and won't cost much at all to the company. Where is their daily presence on R/Discgolf Reddit a sub with 63k subscribers?) Are they at trade shows, are they pushing to get the brand in to big chain retail? I'm struggling to believe that the Name Paul McBeth means much to the Walmart buyer, what incentives could the saved money by not bringing him in be used for to get the discs in store instead?
Right now I'd like the profitability of Ultimate but the potential turnover in Disc Golf is far greater than Ultimate in the long term and when you get to certain levels of turnover the profitability margin can reduce substantially to still make you very very wealthy. At least that's what I keep hoping to myself as I buy more and more inventory....
And MJ, I'm loving the input
I'm really looking forward to the moment Paul opens up on this thread 
turbosteve
Eagle Member
How many discs does innova sell a year?
discgolfer25
Birdie Member
Kinda, yeah. I knew and signed Kevin with Prodiscus when I started working for Prodiscus in 2016. When I started Prodiscus USA, Kevin then was signed to two contracts, one with Prodiscus, one with Prodiscus USA. The two contracts were separate, but together were a competitive package. Kai, the Prodiscus Owner, has a solid relationship with Kevin now, as well, after getting to know him over the past couple of years.
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ThunderEagle
Par Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2016
- Messages
- 241
So, true or not. Stupid speculation or not. When would be the timeframe that this would be put to bed once and for all? Jan 1?
Do we have to have this back and forth for 2 plus months?
Do we have to have this back and forth for 2 plus months?
Myke566
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 397
Based off of last year's switching thread, December 1st was the first confirmed Pro to switch sponsor. So, we have at least another month :doh:
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Don't forget about the Champion Krait
Everyone should forget about the Krait....
shakatak
Birdie Member
Why? I love my GStar Krait.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
I'm guessing they have as I don't recall ever seeing one out in the wild.
ThunderEagle
Par Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2016
- Messages
- 241
You know, at this point, I just want to see this happen to watch the DG community melt down. LOL.
