2022 PDGA Rules

[rhatton1]

To take the holing out wording change into absurdity, because, well, why the hell not.

B. In order to complete a hole with a basket target, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the tray or the chains below the chain support.

If I decide to make a new basket exactly the same as our usual DGUK Castle basket but with chains hanging on down through the cage towards the ground and another ring holding them at ground height this would still meet PDGA approval ( as far as I can see) and if the chains under the basket caught a disc this would count as holed out as per above wording?

It feels like a wording change to get rid of the issues with extremely rare wedged discs or discs balancing on the cage may have opened up more issues than it solves. Wedgies on new baskets are nigh on never happens so why are we writing rules for antiquated equipment which will be less and less used going forward, why not make the top level basket specs a bit more stringent instead to stop the issue?

 

[rhatton1]

I like the OB change, this is a good simplification.

With the mando rule change what happens to a disc that goes the right side, hits a tree, stops and rolls backwards through the restricted air space? Is this a penalty throw and rethrow/dropzone? or is this fine and you just need to make sure your next throw doesn't go through the restricted space. IE, is the restricted air space multidirectional or just one direction (throwing side only)

 

[rhatton1]

I'm not happy that my membership money is being used to prop-up a start-up network...especially after the fiasco that recently happened where viewers were shutout from seeing a playoff. I think more members used uDisc than watch DGN.

Not sure I follow? The PDGA aren't putting money towards the DGN (as far as I can tell) , the DGN is just giving a discount to the PDGA member as a marketing tool? What is different between this discount and the former UDisc one, if anything it's better as the PDGA must have been giving some money to UDisc for the free subscription albeit at a discounted price, (I've not looked at the PDGA accounts but I would assume that was the deal)

Why would UDisc need to give out free subscriptions anymore, their marketing worked and worked well, now they need to monetise the new users they bought in.

Finally the PDGA have enough of a carrot to effectively force membership, it would be a strange decision not to enforce membership for B and A tiers and allow C tiers to still work as the entrance level. Ratings are a helluva drug to most am players however much certain loud voices are shouting against them.

 

[krupicka]

I like the OB change, this is a good simplification.

With the mando rule change what happens to a disc that goes the right side, hits a tree, stops and rolls backwards through the restricted air space? Is this a penalty throw and rethrow/dropzone? or is this fine and you just need to make sure your next throw doesn't go through the restricted space. IE, is the restricted air space multidirectional or just one direction (throwing side only)

If the disc travels any direction across the restricted space, the mandatory has been missed. The goal here was to make it simple and remove the need for a dozen different pictures to try to explain what is / isn't allowed.

 

[rhatton1]

If the disc travels any direction across the restricted space, the mandatory has been missed. The goal here was to make it simple and remove the need for a dozen different pictures to try to explain what is / isn't allowed.

So yes it would be a penalty and rethrow/dropzone?

 

[krupicka]

So yes it would be a penalty and rethrow/dropzone?

Yes it be penalty and relocate lie if you missed the mandatory from either direction.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Well this has the potential to be abused:

F. A disc that is questioned by another player or an Official is illegal unless it is subsequently approved by the Director.

So if I want to be a royal PITA I could question every disc in a players bag and make them go find the TD for approval before they could begin play. If I were TD I'm not sure how I'd react - probably not in a positive manner lol. Good times.

 

[rhatton1]

Well this has the potential to be abused:



So if I want to be a royal PITA I could question every disc in a players bag and make them go find the TD for approval before they could begin play. If I were TD I'm not sure how I'd react - probably not in a positive manner lol. Good times.

Round one, you've traipsed to the furthest out hole for a shotgun start, the two minute warning sounds and your main competition turns to you...."Hey you, your entire bag of discs are overweight."

I would suggest there is room for disqualification for that player however what do you do in the situation as their disqualification at a later stage doesn't mean you don't have to tee off in two minutes with no discs?

 

[ToddL]

Well this has the potential to be abused:



So if I want to be a royal PITA I could question every disc in a players bag and make them go find the TD for approval before they could begin play. If I were TD I'm not sure how I'd react - probably not in a positive manner lol. Good times.

That exact wording got introduced to the rules in 2013 and hasn't changed since.

And the player can still throw the disc(s) in question. If the TD subsequently approves them, then they weren't illegal and they incur no penalty.

 

[rhatton1]

That exact wording got introduced to the rules in 2013 and hasn't changed since.

And the player can still throw the disc(s) in question. If the TD subsequently approves them, then they weren't illegal and they incur no penalty.

Just made this realisation so ignore my above post. The call is to effectively timestamp when penalties would incur from, not to stop you using those discs. It's up to you to continue if you think they are fine. Or at least I think that's how the rule is meant?

 

[ToddL]

With the mando rule change what happens to a disc that goes the right side, hits a tree, stops and rolls backwards through the restricted air space? Is this a penalty throw and rethrow/dropzone? or is this fine and you just need to make sure your next throw doesn't go through the restricted space. IE, is the restricted air space multidirectional or just one direction (throwing side only)

As Krupicka said, one reason for the change is so you don't have to look at a dozen diagrams to learn the nuances of the rule. Backwards, forwards, in-and-out, out-and-in, etc all could have had different results. Now it's just one result.

On a more basic level of the philosophy of the mando rule: If a mandatory is there to prevent you from throwing through an area, then you shouldn't be allowed to throw through that area, end of story.
If there was a playground full of little kids on the restricted side of the mando (bad course design), you should not be able to throw through the playground just because your disc rolled backward into that area instead of forward.

 

[davetherocketguy]

That exact wording got introduced to the rules in 2013 and hasn't changed since.

And the player can still throw the disc(s) in question. If the TD subsequently approves them, then they weren't illegal and they incur no penalty.

Ahhh ok...I didn't realize you could still throw them. That makes a difference obviously...

 

[robdeforge]

Well this has the potential to be abused:



So if I want to be a royal PITA I could question every disc in a players bag and make them go find the TD for approval before they could begin play. If I were TD I'm not sure how I'd react - probably not in a positive manner lol. Good times.

no need to worry

The following actions also violate the above standard. Players who commit one or more of these violations will not receive a warning, and will be immediately disqualified by the Tournament Director:
Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play.

plus, they could play the whole round with their legal discs and get approved by the TD after the fact

 

[thecandydan]

Best rule change out of all is 1.06(K) -- no ghost groups except for emergency situations (e.g. flooded holes).

Great rule imo, tournaments are already often slow and crowded, ghost groups just make it worse.

Next in my dream land is a rule limiting cards to four players. I'll usually avoid tourneys where the TD is putting five players/hole.

 

[ray1970]

Next in my dream land is a rule limiting cards to four players. I'll usually avoid tourneys where the TD is putting five players/hole.

I don't mind a couple of cards with five players and generally don't feel five people play much slower than four. A tournament where every card had five would definitely drag. I actually played on a card of five a couple of weeks ago and our group didn't hold anyone up. In fact, we were waiting on the group of four in front of us more often than not.

 

[BillFleming]

Not sure I follow? The PDGA aren't putting money towards the DGN (as far as I can tell) , the DGN is just giving a discount to the PDGA member as a marketing tool? What is different between this discount and the former UDisc one, if anything it's better as the PDGA must have been giving some money to UDisc for the free subscription albeit at a discounted price, (I've not looked at the PDGA accounts but I would assume that was the deal)

Why would UDisc need to give out free subscriptions anymore, their marketing worked and worked well, now they need to monetise the new users they bought in.

Finally the PDGA have enough of a carrot to effectively force membership, it would be a strange decision not to enforce membership for B and A tiers and allow C tiers to still work as the entrance level. Ratings are a helluva drug to most am players however much certain loud voices are shouting against them.

When I first heard about the possible (at the time) change, the word was that the PDGA was renegotiating with uDisc....that seems to indicate they were paying uDisc a portion of the pro version cost from the membership dues. I'd be surprised if the PDGA isn't paying DGN a portion of our membership dues as part of our discount. It wouldn't be the same amount, but it would still be a portion. I don't believe that either uDisc's Pro version or DGN's discount were ever 'free' to us/PDGA. It would make no sense....but it wouldn't make sense for PDGA (our membership dues) paying for the entire thing/discount. More like - "uDisc, we will pay you $3 from each member's dues if you will give members Pro for free." And something similar for DGN.

I'm not saying uDisc would give out free Pro versions.....instead, give PDGA members $5 off...the Pro version is now $15, so that would still be money coming into uDisc and yet still a benefit to PDGA members.

 

[coupe]

On a more basic level of the philosophy of the mando rule: If a mandatory is there to prevent you from throwing through an area, then you shouldn't be allowed to throw through that area, end of story.
If there was a playground full of little kids on the restricted side of the mando (bad course design), you should not be able to throw through the playground just because your disc rolled backward into that area instead of forward.

Your thrown disc has clearly passed on the correct side of the mando and is flexing away from the playground, hits a little kid who dashed out of the playground into the fairway while your throw was in the air with enough steam to skip off the seat of a spotter's stool and kick into the playground where it KO's a chipmunk. :doh:

"Yo, dude, you missed the mando." :thmbdown:

 

[coupe]

Your thrown disc has clearly passed on the correct side of the mando and is flexing away from the playground, hits a little kid who dashed out of the playground into the fairway while your throw was in the air with enough steam to skip off the seat of a spotter's stool and kick into the playground where it KO's a chipmunk. :doh:

"Yo, dude, you missed the mando." :thmbdown:

Incidentally, this sort of scenario (disc passes on the correct side of the mando but still ending up in a restricted area) demonstrates that the updated mandatory rule does NOT eliminate the concern for where a disc comes to rest.

 

[biscoe]

Best rule change out of all is 1.06(K) -- no ghost groups except for emergency situations (e.g. flooded holes).

Great rule imo, tournaments are already often slow and crowded, ghost groups just make it worse.

Next in my dream land is a rule limiting cards to four players. I'll usually avoid tourneys where the TD is putting five players/hole.

I won't play events with fivesomes. Would rather have seen them eliminated than ghost groups although seeing both go would be fine as well.

 

[ToddL]

Your thrown disc has clearly passed on the correct side of the mando and is flexing away from the playground, hits a little kid who dashed out of the playground into the fairway while your throw was in the air with enough steam to skip off the seat of a spotter's stool and kick into the playground where it KO's a chipmunk. :doh:

"Yo, dude, you missed the mando." :thmbdown:

2018 rule: What you described, and you have to stand in the middle of the playground and make an unsafe throw from that spot.
2021 rule: What you described, and you proceed to the drop zone in the fairway away from the playground.