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2015 Ledgestone NT presented by Discraft

^^^^Howard Cosell? :eek:

Showing your age! :p

Half the folks on here weren't even born the last time he commentated!

Was I supposed to be hiding my age? shoot. I'll admit I was pretty young(at least I think I was, it was along time ago) when his footed mouth broke the camels last straw, but still I remember hating to hear that drawl of his. For what it's worth he was incredibly influential to the trade. Now whether or not that was a good thing is arguable.
 
How does the biggest event($$-wise) turn into such a debacle?

Crazy OB rules that are different from hole to hole
Spotters moving discs
Spectators in the way
Format changes on the final day
Circus-like Finals course

The list goes on.............
 
"Classy"?!?! I dropped in just to say the opposite actually... I think Terry needs to rein it in. His boner for calling out McBeth was getting in the way of the mic... and who "calls it" when there are three more holes to go and only a two stroke lead? Terry does.... repeatedly.

I don't think I understand your comment about "calling out" McBeth. It is funny because some people say that Terry is too much of a Paul "fan boy" while others think he gives the players too hard a time. I guess that is good that it can be seen both ways. And how you feel about a particular player probably skews what people choose to hear and remember. For 2 or 3 years all I heard was how harsh Terry was on Nikko.

I just went back and listened, and I believe that the first place Terry "calls it" is when Paul tried for the green on the water tower hole. Paul flipped up his Firebird out of bounds after Simon was safely in bounds. And in the previous round Simon and Paul had 15 holes that they scored identical scores. For Paul to make up that ground he would have to do something spectacular or have Simon melt down. And Paul KNEW it going in which is why he went for the green on the watertower and volleyball holes causing a bigger spread for victory. He knew Simon's game plan.

The reason Terry is (in my opinion) the best commentator our sport currently has is because he knows the players, the players respect and trust him, he knows the courses, and he knows the game all well enough to make an educated opinion without usually sounding like an idiot.

The other complaint that I know he gets is that people can hear him breathing heavy during the round. And there are plenty of overweight jokes given out. I just want to say this. Terry usually walks about 50% MORE than the other players during the round because he is getting into position behind players to get shots. That means he is scurrying to most of the player's lies on EVERY hole sometimes criss-crossing fairways 2 or 3 times.

Our options are:
1. Lets use our 2nd camera pointing at some arbitrary hole and have a static quiet shot while we walk in between holes like DGPTV does. (not a fan) And then go down to 1 camera.
2. We can play MORE commercials to fill that time. Because NO ONE complains about seeing the same 10 commercials over and over.
3. Terry can speed walk and talk between holes and give our viewers a little more insight and information. And if that means sometimes he sounds out of breath (maybe he is), so be it. I would prefer it that way as opposed to another way.

We are always open to constructive criticism and suggestions. In fact, I go online specifically LOOKING for them. And I am finding it refreshing (and slightly frustrating) that I am finding less and less criticisms. We have things we have to fix. We NEED a stabilizer vest for our camera walks to smooth out the shakes. And we NEED a better microphone that picks up less handling noise and is preferably wireless. Together this will run us about $2K.

As always, thanks for watching. I am proud of our 4 person team that put out this event (Me, Terry, Joe Hite, and Gary O). And I am proud of our viewers/community/Smashies who usually keep our chat board a classy place during the event.
 
How does the biggest event($$-wise) turn into such a debacle?

Crazy OB rules that are different from hole to hole
Spotters moving discs
Spectators in the way
Format changes on the final day
Circus-like Finals course

The list goes on.............

Very true, but there is a bright side. Call it growing pains and experience. I'm pretty sure some of these layouts will be tried again but they'll be modified. At least it wasn't an open field hyzer fest.

And yes, JohnE was a bit unprofessional. An older version of Niko perhaps?
 
How does the biggest event($$-wise) turn into such a debacle?

Crazy OB rules that are different from hole to hole
Spotters moving discs
Spectators in the way
Format changes on the final day
Circus-like Finals course

The list goes on.............

Because no event is perfect and disc golfers suck. Guaranteed to find something to bitch and moan about no matter what.

Frankly, with the amount of $$$ nate raised for this event I think he can do whatever he freaking feels like.
 
And yes, JohnE was a bit unprofessional. An older version of Niko perhaps?
LOL nice comparison.

The spectators hanging right at the OB line was totally preventable. All the volunteers/spotters/etc should've been gathered together to be gallery tenders for the Final 9.
I figure they probably had a few dozen bodies spread across all the courses for the first 3 rounds. Why not get them all focused on the MPO and FPO Final cards?


The "fantasy OB" rope thing is also partly to blame........ less chances for spectators to be in the OB when the OB is a pond, fence, etc.
 
After spectating last weeks final 9 at the Mad City Open, and yesterdays final 9 at the Ledgestone, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a fan of clown holes and windmill holes.

Your results may vary :)
 
Because no event is perfect and disc golfers suck. Guaranteed to find something to bitch and moan about no matter what.

Frankly, with the amount of $$$ nate raised for this event I think he can do whatever he freaking feels like.

Uhhhh yea....... I've been a TD for 8 years and I know that all events aren't perfect. But this was much more than that. Basic principles that I learned before I even started TDing were missed here.
The problems around rope OB and S & D are well documented from previous USDGC's.
We disc golfers do a decent job policing ourselves...... why couldn't a few more in the gallery step up and push the crowds back from the OB lines? You gotta know that with the big arms and windy conditions that some drives were gonna go off course.

I guess my TD hat expected a bit more from this event....... not looking to offend anyone, just wanted to see better.
 
Also, i'm not fully aware of the complete process involved in getting an NT event approved.......... does the PDGA come out and check the propsed layouts? Do they require certain thing to be in place?

There really should be a set of standards for this.
 
I was the guide for the lead card and saw how tight the crowds were on Hole 2. Problem was I was hundreds of feet away and no way to let communicate down by the basket to get them pushed back. Later in the final 9 I was checking with the players if I needed to go down the fairway to push people back. We were definitely short handed at various times. More (esp. knowledgeable) volunteers would have been very helpful.
 
Risk/reward should give you to option of making a safe play and advancing to the hole. The shorty par four at Northwood (5? I think) where you had to land in a small roped landing zone or retee is a hole where they failed to grasp risk/reward. There is no reward on the first shot, just risk. Same thing with with the creek hole on the temp course, there isn't much option on reducing your risk and increasing your reward. You have to hit the window or retee. Same with 17. Any forced carry should give you a bailout option or move you a drop zone after failing the shot. That's the one item USDGC has figured out, give them a bailout option (even if they aren't smart enough to use it).

........ I'm in agreement with this. It was a bad decision to not leave a "safe " and reasonably reachable landing zone option. It should be a choice to risk for Reward. That must've been humiliating to the pro women and everyone who isn't on the short list of very best in the world. Even those guys struggled of course. These types of course layouts bug me also in that they can't help being biased and favouring different styles and skills. I'm not saying this a devious ruse to give an individual an advantage, but a good disc golfer has strengths and weaknesses and it seems funny to alter the rules of play in a way that favours one individuals strengths over anothers. Some peoples strenght is approach, some driving... I have watched world championships where guys without the top distance driving skills could compete because the rest of their game was strong. This layout certainty will separate the men from the boys and or girls but it doesn't seem right and reasonable to me, it seems forced and unnatural at the least to use so many mandatory landing zones. The rethrow with stroke rule seems a bit too brutal. I bet many people who played knowing that they had no reasonable chance of glory or money and were doing it for fun and love of the sport feel upset that the courses special rules were such a wildcard in their search for fun. Of course I also acknowledge that the sponser can do what he wishes as is their right. For me,as I imagine it is for most, disc golf is a mix of pain and pleasure. Their are plenty of natural pains from not executing and I don't concur with changing normal play of a course to such a degree that so many very good players can't hit the mandatory and then throw again...and again. It's just not nice =)
 
This is honestly the most disheartening post I have ever seen on this site. I would recommend everyone reach out to this person directly and say something to him. We cannot have uneducated people saying stuff like this - it will burn out TD's and will keep people from running high profile events. This comment is truly EMBARRASSING and this person should apologize immediately. Silver platter? I spent 1600 hours on this event, 1300 of which was spent fundraising. Discraft was a great support of the event, but I had to raise $140,000 on top of what Discraft provided for the event. Whoever this person is should truly be ashamed of themselves

Agreed. The fact that their are real people that think like this is absurd and is a slap in the face to all the TD's out there busting their butts off to make events like these happen. TD's everywhere deserve better, and Nate especially.
 
I felt bad for JohnE on hole 2 (3rd hole of the final 9?) where he hit one of the spectators. He yanked his drive a bit far right, so it wasn't the perfect shot, but the disc would've gone in bounds. Everyone scrambled to get out of the way of the disc except one guy that for some reason just laid down on the ground...right on the rope...and the disc hit his back. That hole was stroke and distance.

Let me see if I have this right. Final Nine, it's all about Simon vs. Paul for the first & second places. All five players birdie hole #1. JohnE was in a battle for 3rd place with two others and on the second hole, the other two have laid up on their second shot. With all of this "fair" stroke and distance OB ropes (that some are calling it), that "makes you take the risk to get the reward" or "be punished if you don't execute", JohnE decides he can make the green and goes for it hoping to gain a stroke on the other two guys. He throws and actually does execute going for the green on his second shot and SPECTATOR(S) in the gallery, some of whom are sitting on their chairs and stools within inches to maybe a couple feet of the OB line (and if I know galleries, some of whom aren't even watching every shot closely, maybe just their favorite player) prevent his disc from landing in bounds where it rightfully should have. Now, there is no accounting for what might happen once a disc hits ground; we've all seen a great shot catch an edge and do something crazy -- but SPECTATOR interference prevents a layup birdie and an outside chance for eagle if he can throw it in. Do I have that right?

Hmmm. Do we still think all of that's fair??? Not sure I do. Sounds like we need a rule for spectator interference like baseball has. That situation was really not the tourney's fault. It was the spectator's. A spectator not being alert and not being in the right place cost him a chance like that in a big tournament. WOW. I know a lot of disc golfers who would have been worse. Well, maybe not. They've never been in a spot like that before.

By the way, I never found the actual final nine caddy book.
 
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Maple Hill 5 -- you can see lots of deuces by people with a RHFH hyzer, very tough to even get a three with any other shot. Although there is a route through the woods with RHBH, it is nearly impossible to get there for a deuce putt. Video of this years event shows Feldberg taking a 5 trying to go that way while cardmates deuce it easily with RHFH hyzer.

but if you DON'T have the shot for the hole (and honestly, don't discount a turnover shot, it's only 280ish), you can STILL suck it up, go right and have a pretty simple 3, or at worst, a 4.

I was sort of under the impression that the tee was elevated on Eureka 17. being that it is flat, there's very little chance for anything but a roller to work for a lefty.
 
I don't think I understand your comment about "calling out" McBeth. It is funny because some people say that Terry is too much of a Paul "fan boy" while others think he gives the players too hard a time. I guess that is good that it can be seen both ways. And how you feel about a particular player probably skews what people choose to hear and remember. For 2 or 3 years all I heard was how harsh Terry was on Nikko.

I just went back and listened, and I believe that the first place Terry "calls it" is when Paul tried for the green on the water tower hole. Paul flipped up his Firebird out of bounds after Simon was safely in bounds. And in the previous round Simon and Paul had 15 holes that they scored identical scores. For Paul to make up that ground he would have to do something spectacular or have Simon melt down. And Paul KNEW it going in which is why he went for the green on the watertower and volleyball holes causing a bigger spread for victory. He knew Simon's game plan.

The reason Terry is (in my opinion) the best commentator our sport currently has is because he knows the players, the players respect and trust him, he knows the courses, and he knows the game all well enough to make an educated opinion without usually sounding like an idiot.

The other complaint that I know he gets is that people can hear him breathing heavy during the round. And there are plenty of overweight jokes given out. I just want to say this. Terry usually walks about 50% MORE than the other players during the round because he is getting into position behind players to get shots. That means he is scurrying to most of the player's lies on EVERY hole sometimes criss-crossing fairways 2 or 3 times.

Our options are:
1. Lets use our 2nd camera pointing at some arbitrary hole and have a static quiet shot while we walk in between holes like DGPTV does. (not a fan) And then go down to 1 camera.
2. We can play MORE commercials to fill that time. Because NO ONE complains about seeing the same 10 commercials over and over.
3. Terry can speed walk and talk between holes and give our viewers a little more insight and information. And if that means sometimes he sounds out of breath (maybe he is), so be it. I would prefer it that way as opposed to another way.

We are always open to constructive criticism and suggestions. In fact, I go online specifically LOOKING for them. And I am finding it refreshing (and slightly frustrating) that I am finding less and less criticisms. We have things we have to fix. We NEED a stabilizer vest for our camera walks to smooth out the shakes. And we NEED a better microphone that picks up less handling noise and is preferably wireless. Together this will run us about $2K.

As always, thanks for watching. I am proud of our 4 person team that put out this event (Me, Terry, Joe Hite, and Gary O). And I am proud of our viewers/community/Smashies who usually keep our chat board a classy place during the event.

JVD, you guys did a great job with all of the live coverage. You guys covered it perfectly. It just wasnt that fun to watch because of the crappy course design. The Northwoods coverage was at least entertaining but that Lake Eureka course was horrendous.
 
Loved the finals being at Lake Eureka Park. Beautiful park! With an improved crowd control plan, it will be a great place for future finals. Thanks to Nate and all of the volunteers and sponsors for the hard work. Nate is a smart guy and I believe we'll see some positive changes as this event moves forward. As my Grandma likes to say, "ever onward and upward".
 
A case can be made that a disc does not have "rights" when traversing OB during part of its flight and is subject to whatever poor luck befalls it while in/over OB territory. Now, if the interference occurs when a spectator is inbounds, that's another matter.
 
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Sadly on the internet people will exaggerate and often flat out lie. I followed the coverage and here is what I found.

The coverage was excellent. I spent half my day watching that and kept trying to get out the door to go and play disc golf. I was able to play a round in between rounds and enjoy a improbably comeback by one of the tours most exciting players.

The course, ok some of the wholes did not work. Others did however, Paul went for some of the shots on the holes where everyone else normally lays up to try and come back. That does make it exciting and if it had been Simon going for the same shots it would have been even more exciting. Imagine if Paul had Parked the tower hole and parked the volleyball hole...

Money? I know nothing about the effort or fundraising involved but Bravo for anyone who put the time and effort into making a huge tourney like that happen. I have been helping out on our local course lately and I am shocked at how much work it is. I cannot imagine organizing and running a tourney of that scale.

Thanks for your efforts, I know I enjoyed them immensely. Don't let a few trolls on the internet ruin your day
 
We are always open to constructive criticism and suggestions. In fact, I go online specifically LOOKING for them. And I am finding it refreshing (and slightly frustrating) that I am finding less and less criticisms.

Whoa and whew, apparently so. Nice defense of what is an applaudable job by all at Smashboxx, this includes Terry aka the Pouncing Kitten. Thank you... but having said that; some people like their cucumbers pickled and me well I prefer my commentary to be less about the commentator(s).
 

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