2015 Minnesota Majestic

[diskey river]

^
except for in disc golf that's not the norm & how it usually works, this isn't softball. I've been playing competitively since 2010 & every tournament I have played in (100+) has paid out at least 40% of the field, most cases more. So now 6 years later I sign up for a huge A Tier that's supposed to payout we'll cause of a previous years debacle, finish top 10 in Adv with an Int rating & get nothing? I had an awesome time, played tons of new courses over 4 days, players pack was nice, but if I would have had honest info up front we would have went to Michigan instead or played Des Moines the weekend before instead because for 6 years in competitive disc golf getting paid out for a good placement is what most Ams are used to, just advertise ahead of time that 5 players are getting paid out with the winner get $800+ in merch & let me decide if I want to participate instead of baiting me in with false promises of top heavy payouts.

You really think if that's how it worked tons of Ams would show up to play & fill all these tournies nowadays? Cause your wrong if you believe that. Am's make up waaaay more of the playing tourney fields than pros. Without the chance at a payout it would be crickets.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

The awesome thing about Disc Golf growing and many tournaments filling, is that people have choices. If one TD chooses to get thousands of $$ in handouts from local business to give to disc golfers, that's awesome, his tournament will fill in 5.23 minutes. But this practice should not be expected as the "Norm" or what anyone deserves or paid for.

There will still be many tournaments with realistic pay outs that will sell out too. No one should expect all TDs to hand out more than they get in entry fees.

 

[TimSyl]

As people have stated many times on DGCR, I also don't comprehend the entitlement of disc golfers. Not claiming I've played ALL other sports/games, but I've been in golf, tennis, pool, basketball, and softball tournaments. The fees charged typically went to the organizers of the events, with very few participants "getting something" tangible, other than the experience of competing. I wonder if this entitlement stems from the fact many disc golfers haven't played other games competitively?

 

[notroman]

As people have stated many times on DGCR, I also don't comprehend the entitlement of disc golfers. Not claiming I've played ALL other sports/games, but I've been in golf, tennis, pool, basketball, and softball tournaments. The fees charged typically went to the organizers of the events, with very few participants "getting something" tangible, other than the experience of competing. I wonder if this entitlement stems from the fact many disc golfers haven't played other games competitively?

I think in the case of the Majestic it's the fact that they did not follow the historic norm but did not tell anyone they were going to deviate from it. From the way people are complaining I think it's more of a complaint that they weren't notified, not that they didn't get paid out (although that's also an issue to some).

You can't pay 40-50% of the field for years, then change the model to bigger player packs and smaller payouts without telling anyone then expect everyone to be happy. Even if you do tell people, most people don't like change. You don't have to look at other sports to see this. Just look at how many people freak out every time Facebook changes their menus around.

People have certain expectations coming into an event. If those expectations aren't met you will get complaints.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There's no such thing as a "hybrid" or "top heavy" payout event for ams in North America unless approved by the PDGA as an X-tier. Either you do full trophy only with player packs, CTPs and no payouts based on finish position (other than trophies), or you follow PDGA payout guidelines out to 45%+ for Ams. The total value of the payout available to each am division may be lower than "normal" due to fee and course reservation deductions, but whatever remains should be spread among the top 45% finishers.

 

[diskey river]

^^
thank you

 

[diskey river]

The entitlement argument doesn't fly at all either especially when trying to compare to different competitive situations. Whether its discs, or balls and sticks its still golf. Wouldn't you assume that DG would follow the competitive golf model? Play 2 rounds, make the cut your in the payouts, miss the cut then no payouts. Which means roughly half the field is in the payouts. How could you ever compare that to softball or running or anything else really?

 

[TimSyl]

Guess I wasn't necessarily talking about this one tourney as I wasn't involved...was referring more to the seeming prevailing thoughts of a high percentage of disc golfers expecting something just because they signed up.

 

[Segovia]

The entitlement argument doesn't fly at all either especially when trying to compare to different competitive situations. Whether its discs, or balls and sticks its still golf. Wouldn't you assume that DG would follow the competitive golf model? Play 2 rounds, make the cut your in the payouts, miss the cut then no payouts. Which means roughly half the field is in the payouts. How could you ever compare that to softball or running or anything else really?

Amateur disc golf != professional golf. In fact, it looks like amateur golf is very similar to amateur disc golf. No playing for cash allowed. They can accept up to $750 in retail value as a prize. The only exception to this is for a hole in one. Sound familiar? I would also assume that if you look at the money floating around in traditional golf vs. disc golf the rewards in disc golf would stack up pretty favorably when you account for that difference.

I still stand by the comparison of amateur disc golf and a weekend recreational softball/volleyball tournament. The difference is that people play in softball leagues for fun and some good competition. Nobody goes to a tournament and expects to walk away from every weekend with vouchers to a local sporting goods store essentially for just showing up. Even the teams that win don't expect that. They fully understand that it is a recreational/fun activity if you're not playing at a professional level.

On the other hand, amateur disc golfers expect to pay their $75 entry fee, get a $50 + value players pack, enjoy a players party (like on Friday at BRP), get to play courses that have to be shut down for the duration of the round, benefit from the HUGE time investments of the TD (who they apparently think should put in 100+ hours out of the goodness of their heart), benefit from the HUGE time investments of volunteers, AND still think they should be rewarded for finishing 15 strokes off the lead in 30th place. Makes sense right?

 

[TimSyl]

what he said ^^^^^^

 

[cjman]

You guys are clueless. A TD can make a good deal of money and offer customary payouts.

 

[cjman]

And ams expect that because the PDGA has set up the tour standards so that TDs can make money running an am event.

I pay 75$ a weekend vs 75$ for a summers worth of softball. Poor comparison.

Lower entry fees to $30 and run trophy only. Events will shut down, (because there is no money to be made) and the PDGA will die.

 

[TimSyl]

Why do other sports have ample participation if participants are generally not getting much in return? I don't doubt a TD can make $...that's not my point. Point is, WHY is it expected to get way more than just the competition in a disc golf tourney?

 

[notroman]

Why do other sports have ample participation if participants are generally not getting much in return? I don't doubt a TD can make $...that's not my point. Point is, WHY is it expected to get way more than just the competition in a disc golf tourney?

Because that's how it has always been. You're not going to change that without making many people unhappy. For the same reason you don't give candy to a baby and then take it away.

 

[Segovia]

First off, I absolutely believe that TD's should be fairly compensated for their time. I don't have a specific number or percentage since I haven't been involved in organizing an event. All I know is that it is a huge undertaking, and there should be incentives for people to step up and put an event together.

Second, your $75 for a weekend of disc golf typically receives an immediate return on investment (since that's apparently why people play amateur disc golf) in the form of a players pack/players party/side events (ring of fire, distance contests, etc...). Then players want the top 50% to receive payouts. Seems to me that lately players complain if the players pack is just over the minimum requirement ($25 or so for A-tier I believe). Players complain about contents of the players pack even if it is well over the requirement. Players complain about finishing 20 strokes off the leaders and not getting a payout. Players complain about getting a payout but not enough to cover entry costs.

Seems to me that moving forward there are two general directions it could go:
1). Players packs go away completely OR are drastically reduced in value. That money is instead funneled to payouts for amateurs.
2). Players packs value goes up, with the amateur divisions going trophy only (no payouts at all).

I just genuinely can't see how players expect to have it both ways (big players packs AND big payouts).

 

[Pbmercil]

You guys are clueless. A TD can make a good deal of money and offer customary payouts.

Do you have any experience whatsoever to back that statement up? Because every TD I've ever met has busted their butt for ZERO actual payoff for themselves and STILL had to deal with constant griping from a very obnoxious, vocal % of the field no matter what. If you've ever run an event for your own personal profit I'd love to here about it.

 

[notroman]

Yep, unless the TD is also in charge of the merch running tournaments is guaranteed to be a money losing operation. Even if you sell merch, you can't guarantee you'll sell enough to make a profit on the day.

 

[Pbmercil]

I just genuinely can't see how players expect to have it both ways (big players packs AND big payouts).

Exactly. The top guys in every division want a huge payout. Guys just below them want a deep payout. Guys below them want a stacked players pack. At least one of those groups is going to miss out, and the TD is going to catch hell for it from whoever feels like they didn't get what they deserved, because someone who has no idea what it takes to put an event "paid good money to be here so the least they could do is BLAH BLAH BLAH"

 

[Pbmercil]

1). Players packs go away completely OR are drastically reduced in value. That money is instead funneled to payouts for amateurs.
2). Players packs value goes up, with the amateur divisions going trophy only (no payouts at all).

I just genuinely can't see how players expect to have it both ways (big players packs AND big payouts).

Seems like trophy only is the direction we are heading in. Its a pretty good system, the only flaw being people have pretty high expectations for players packs in trophy only events (go figure)

 

[diskey river]

Because that's how it has always been. You're not going to change that without making many people unhappy. For the same reason you don't give candy to a baby and then take it away.

^
This!

If TD's want to deviate from the standard norm that has been in place, just advertise that ahead of time and let me decide which tournaments I spend my hard earned money to play. I wouldn't pay to play without a chance and some sort of payout.